Process original tracks or process a group?

J

jonobacon

New member
Hi All,

I am mixing a project with the following tracks:

  • Rhythm Guitar (L)
  • Rhythm Guitar (R)
  • Melody Guitar (L)
  • Melody Guitar (R)
  • Melody Guitar (M)
  • Solo Guitar (C)
  • Bass (M)
  • Drums (M)
  • Vocals Main (M)
  • Vocals Backing (L)
  • Vocals Backing (R)

I want a big, upfront sound (this is heavy rock/metal), so I was thinking of EQing the original tracks and then routing tracks to groups and compressing them. For example, I would EQ the Melody guitars individually and then route them to a 'Melody Guitars' group where I would apply compression and a little bit of delay. I was under the impression that this is better for making the tracks feel "glued together".

Is this the best approach or is it better for me to use a send on each of the original tracks and not process the group?

Thoughts?
 
The more I do this the less I group process things. I did limit some toms as a group recently, but I think that's just because I was lazy and didn't want to spend the time to do it track by track.
 
Can't speak for BSG....but I don't group process anything.
Why...?...more control and easier than trying to find one processor setting that works equally well across all grouped tracks.
 
Basically, I process things that need to be processed individually, individually and things that I can process as a group, as a group.

For drums, I EQ and compress them individually and then run the overheads and room mics to a buss and the drums to another buss to compress. Most of the time, I will run the drum verb to the drum buss so it gets compressed along with the drums.

For rhythm guitar, when I record it, I generally keep the guitar sound the same on both sides. So I run them to a buss and EQ the buss. It's less fiddly. If the rhythm guitars have different tones, I EQ the individual tracks so that the two sounds work together, then send them to the buss. If I need to do any further EQ, I do it at the buss level. Since I already have them working well together, the only reason they would need further EQ is if they were fighting with something else in the mix or needed to be brighter or some such other thing.

The same goes with anything else. First, I get the individual tracks to work in the context of the other like tracks. (rhythm guitars, drums, leads, backing vocals, etc...) Then I send those groups to the busses and finish the mix from the busses. Obviously there are exceptions, but that is the basic setup.
 
Yeah, of couse...I'll also process the stereo bus with a comp or EQ....I was meaning that I don't do "stem" or sub-group processing. :)
 
jonobacon said:
Out of curiosity, why do you not group process things as much?
Click to expand...

Why do you want to? The boring simple answer is to do what the mix needs. Don't overthink it. Don't go into it thinking you have to do things just because you can. The other simple answer is just try it for yourself and see.
 
The concept of planning in advance to do certain things just doesn't work with me. If I need to compress, I'll decide after it's recorded and I decide it needs it. In the days of limited equipment, I'd sometimes have the drums balanced in stereo, and slap the compressor on the group, to leave the other compressors for more important needs. Now we can compress everything, There's no real need - and to be honest, group compressing is always a compromise - I might want to compress the snare and the toms, but the overheads and hats might not want it - so now, I just use what I need. In fact, groups for me or VCAs just get used to bring relative fader levels up or down.

If you need to compress your drums, and are using a digital desk or workstation/sequencer, I'd be adding the compression on a source by source basis. Just can't see the point in treating groups - which for me, in the old days was just a convenient workaround.
 
I group things to a buss for reverb, delay, compression as needed. I balance the buss with the original tracks.
 
I don't compress the drum buss as a compromise, most of the time I compress the individual drums as well. I do it to get the pump and to duck the room/reverb. Also almost never compress anything to keep levels in check. I only compress for the sound.
 
Without knowing the song I have a few suggestions about working on this type of music. Panning your Rhythm Guitars L 8 o'clock R 4 o'clock will help you achieve the wall of Guitars sound. If you pan your "melody guitars" hard L&R and boost at a slightly higher frequency it will widen your stereo field. Make sure the kick and snare are in your face. Parallel compression is a great tool if you use it properly and don't over compress. Try a few groups out see how they sound. Generally your rhythm guitars won't need to be compressed in this Style of music since they are overdriven when recorded. Let me know if you have any other questions, I've worked on a lot of this style music!! Good luck!!
 
personally I use groups quite a lot, especially with drums, mostly to glue them together, I'll still use HP and LP filters on individual drums but there's something good about processing the kit as a whole thing, same thing with lead vox, backing vox, rhythm guitars, bass, keys, brass e.t.c they all get their own bus, so I can them bounce the busses down to stems. Then once they are in stem form it's a lot easier to create a final mix for me at least.
 
Btyre2013 said:
personally I use groups quite a lot, especially with drums, mostly to glue them together, I'll still use HP and LP filters on individual drums but there's something good about processing the kit as a whole thing, same thing with lead vox, backing vox, rhythm guitars, bass, keys, brass e.t.c they all get their own bus, so I can them bounce the busses down to stems. Then once they are in stem form it's a lot easier to create a final mix for me at least.
Click to expand...

Seriously, why the big red font? :facepalm:
 
I always have a drum bus it is easy way to adjust the levels of the whole kit additionally sometimes adjusting the EQ across the board for the instrument makes more sense. I also send the entire kit to a parallel bus for slammin. Occasionally double tracked vocals and backing vocals will get processed on a bus. Compressing a group of vocals gives you a more washy sound than processing them individually.
 
To the OP's question: I think of the live sound that I want to replicate. So I might eq toms individually (as in live sound), as well as vocal and guitars. For the best result, I then group to apply reverb (the space the band is playing in; I use only one reverb and one setting.) I might also use MBC (multiband compression) if I think the final track would benefit from it. I might also compress on groups if that pulls the tracks together. (Otherwise, I compress individually but only the tracks that need it. During tracking I often apply some compression to deal with minor off-mic moments. I might compress the bass drum or snare or both on pop, rock, or country if the drummer is not on top of consistency. (but never on jazz) I try to get the drum tracks solid by themselves so I don't have to use compression just in case it messes with the cymbals and makes them breath or pulse. Ultimately I do whatever will give me a good consistent sound. When it comes to mastering, I listen carefully first. I want to hear what the artist was doing during tracking (I rarely master my own engineering tracks. I'm just too close to it. I try to get the tracks and the mix perfect and then have a mastering engineer work on the tracks.) Once I listen and talk to the artist about what I am hearing and what they want to hear, I see if I can use a little eq to get that. I am at that point going for perceived volume or the sense that something is louder because it is clearer. Then I might compress if it helps. I am very careful about limiting unless it makes the tracks fit together better. I would rather push up than push down. There are a lot of tutorials on youtube that will help you. Remember, some engineers do it one way and some another. You have to try the suggestions and see which way get you the results you want. I suggest, as others have here, that you start by just doing it and seeing what you get first. Let your ears be your guide. Then turn to the books and experts and see how that benefits you. (Always save the unprocessed tracks)
 
Rod Norman said:
To the OP's question: I think of the live sound that I want to replicate. So I might eq toms individually (as in live sound), as well as vocal and guitars.

For the best result, I then group to apply reverb (the space the band is playing in; I use only one reverb and one setting.)

I may also use MBC (multiband compression) if I think the final track would benefit from it. I sometimes also compress on groups if that pulls the tracks together. (Otherwise, I compress individually but only the tracks that need it.

During tracking I often apply some compression to deal with minor off-mic moments. I may compress the bass drum or snare or both on pop, rock, or country if the drummer is not on top of consistency. (but never on jazz) I try to get the drum tracks solid by themselves so I don't have to use compression just in case it messes with the cymbals and makes them breath or pulse.

Ultimately I do whatever will give me a good consistent sound. When it comes to mastering, I listen carefully first. I want to hear what the artist was doing during tracking (I rarely master my own engineering tracks. I'm just too close to it. I try to get the tracks and the mix perfect and then have a mastering engineer work on the tracks.) Once I listen and talk to the artist about what I am hearing and what they want to hear, I see if I can use a little eq to get that.

I am at that point going for perceived volume or the sense that something is louder because it is clearer. Then if needed, I compress if it helps. I am very careful about limiting unless it makes the tracks fit together better. I would rather push up than push down.

There are a lot of tutorials on youtube that will help you. Remember, some engineers do it one way and some another. You have to try the suggestions and see which way get you the results you want. I suggest, as others have here, that you start by just doing it and seeing what you get first.

Let your ears be your guide. Then turn to the books and experts and see how that benefits you. (Always save the unprocessed tracks)
Click to expand...


I must say that ^^This 'edited' version^^ is much easier to read. :)

I will say to you Rod that your posts are more direct and on point lately. I really appreciate your input.
 
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