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Thread: Pro User Question - What are you using besides Waves for advanced 'level-mixing'?

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    Pro User Question - What are you using besides Waves for advanced 'level-mixing'?

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    If you are not using the Waves DTS or M series plugins for fold-down and matrix management what are other options are out there?

    And is there a non-Waves alternative to the B360 encoder?

    Waves and Izotope currently do not have a plugin that can scan an entire 5.1+ file and calculate the LUFS readout. Does anyone know of a plugin that can do this offline?

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    Subscribing to feed my curiosity :>)
    Placebo stomps 96k ....... Recent projects
    Ray Catfish Copeland 'Got Love Jim Goodman 'Southern Steel

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    Quote Originally Posted by mixsit View Post
    Subscribing to feed my curiosity :>)
    While we're waiting to see if any else chimes in, I'll mention that for a Dolby Atmos config larger than 7.1 most of my friends are using the digital summing matrix inside their console center sections. For 5.1, since you're only going between surround and stereo its just as easy to do this in the box. The Waves stuff is working OK for now, but if there's better stuff out there to do this with, I'm curious to know what it is.

    The reason I'm curious about the 360 ambisonics B format encoders is that it requires a Waves proprietary motion tracker. This isn't a problem so far, but if I ever want to move outside of the Waves family, I'd like to know how other people are doing it.

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    I doubt you will find many using anything more than stereo on here, but I'll bite as I've always been interested. Nuendo has tools for this built in (specifically atmos up to 9.1). You still have to have to connect to the Dolby RMU though.

    What I don't know is if Nuendo can analyse LUFS offline, but I know it can online (cubase pro can as well).

    Here is the link on Nuendo and Atmos if you're interested: Mixing for Dolby Atmos(R)
    My home studio ---> www.nerolstudio.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitargodgt View Post
    I doubt you will find many using anything more than stereo on here, but I'll bite as I've always been interested. Nuendo has tools for this built in (specifically atmos up to 9.1). You still have to have to connect to the Dolby RMU though.
    Hi Guitargodgt...That's what I thought, but the dude who I think runs this site got pretty pissy when I assumed no one on this forum really deals with stuff beyond basic stereo music and told someone else that, but maybe he's been hoping to see the site have more pro activity from audio guys outside of music. Who knows.

    I know Nuendo has 9.1 surround, but I don't see a down-mixing function on the 10 bus which means it requires a series of manual fader moves to monitor a fold down. If I'm completely in the box, I usually dump that Waves M unit on the surround bus and toggle between Monitors. I have my JBL surround config strapped to an output group on the Avid Hd i/os independently of the Focals. As soon as I go higher than 5.1, I have to use the Atmos bus on the console.

    (To clarify, what I'm trying to do is check for Atmos -> 7.1 -> 5.1 -> stereo translation with a single button toggle in the box. I currently use Waves to do this in the box. I currently use the console to do this outside the box. I'm wanting an alternative to the Waves plugin to do this inside the box)

    What I don't know is if Nuendo can analyse LUFS offline, but I know it can online (cubase pro can as well).
    I don't think it can, but regardless, I gotta figure out a way to do this from inside Pro Tools. It sounds like you have some experience with surround formats...I always have 3 metering plugs running - the WLM, Izotope Insight, the Waves Dorrough and the stock Avid display on the S5 console. Weather I'm formatting for Netflix or for Fox broadcast or whatever, I'm mainly relying on Insight (and sometimes the TC clarity) for my LUFS (or LKFS) readout. But the god damn thing has to scan in real time before I can export the loudness report to an excel spreadsheet. I see a couple programs that can do the offline LUFS scan, but they can only read a stereo file. The LUFS standards for 5.1 has to account for all 6 stems cumulatively and it doesn't use simple addition. So six independent loudness readouts of six mono files (or 3 stereo files) doesn't tell you shit. Hence where I'm stuck.

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    Cubase and Nuendo would be the same in terms of it's downmix (just clarifying the link).

    I do not think it can be done instantly with a button press but to be honest I don't know.

    Automatic Downmixing


    But when they say automatic, it's my understanding this is done at bounce not in real time within the daw BUT I could be wrong there as well.
    My home studio ---> www.nerolstudio.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by jkuehlin View Post
    I don't think it can, but regardless, I gotta figure out a way to do this from inside Pro Tools. It sounds like you have some experience with surround formats...I always have 3 metering plugs running - the WLM, Izotope Insight, the Waves Dorrough and the stock Avid display on the S5 console. Weather I'm formatting for Netflix or for Fox broadcast or whatever, I'm mainly relying on Insight (and sometimes the TC clarity) for my LUFS (or LKFS) readout. But the god damn thing has to scan in real time before I can export the loudness report to an excel spreadsheet. I see a couple programs that can do the offline LUFS scan, but they can only read a stereo file. The LUFS standards for 5.1 has to account for all 6 stems cumulatively and it doesn't use simple addition. So six independent loudness readouts of six mono files (or 3 stereo files) doesn't tell you shit. Hence where I'm stuck.
    Yeah this is where I'm not much help at all. Even my google foo comes up with nothing. I'm actually surprised this doesn't exist though (who knows maybe it does).
    My home studio ---> www.nerolstudio.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by jkuehlin View Post
    Hi Guitargodgt...That's what I thought, but the dude who I think runs this site got pretty pissy when I assumed no one on this forum really deals with stuff beyond basic stereo music
    It wasn't so much what was said, as how.

    Quote Originally Posted by jkuehlin View Post
    The editing techniques and tools for what you need to do here are also beyond what people on this forum will understand and will benefit from anyway.
    ---------- Steenaudio Website ----------

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Steenamaroo For This Useful Post:


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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitargodgt View Post
    Cubase and Nuendo would be the same in terms of it's downmix (just clarifying the link).

    I do not think it can be done instantly with a button press but to be honest I don't know.

    Automatic Downmixing


    But when they say automatic, it's my understanding this is done at bounce not in real time within the daw BUT I could be wrong there as well.
    Thanks man...I appreciate it. I know Nuendo is quite capable of handling these types of projects but that Waves plugin is SO convenient that it's spoiling us rotton over her at the studio! Lol. I mean if I just have to keep using it, I'm not going to complain. I'm more or less curious how anyone is surviving these tasks without it lol.

    screen-shot-2018-08-04-8-06-11-pm-png

    There's a picture of the default fold matrix I usually use for non-atmos projects. Thats a screenshot from the system computer that controls the i/o of the center section of the console. Some guys like FOX TV and some smaller regional networks have really different formatting specs than Netflix or BlueRay standard...when I export ADR or DX stems in a foreign language I need to have some extra tricks up the sleeve because some companies overseas want deliverables at radically different specs than the ones here.

    With Nuendo I would just manually re-enter those blocks (in the picture above) into the user defined fold presets (if I needed them), but I'm pretty sure you can't do that in Pro Tools...hence the reason I'm using the Waves plugin.
    Last edited by jkuehlin; 08-04-2018 at 17:33.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steenamaroo View Post
    It wasn't so much what was said, as how.
    Ok - Point taken.

    I'll be more conscientious of the wording in the future.

    And to be clear, when I said 'advanced level mixing' in this thread title...I'm talking about LEVEL MIXING as in 'volume metering' or 'volume management', and advanced as in larger than a 2.0 format.

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