More mixing tips from Waves

I love that Waves Smack Attack. Its a fun little plug. As effective as the SPL TD but much more versatile. Been using Kush plugs quite a bit on drum sets. Izotope trash for heavier mangling lately.
 
I use Smack and Trash also. Smack is great for quick changes and the depth of Trash is just amazing
 
I would rather buy UAD, Waves just my second choose. they don't improve their plugin, But still want to charge you money for maintain you ALREADY BOUGHT plugin, what a shit !
 
I would rather buy UAD, Waves just my second choose. they don't improve their plugin, But still want to charge you money for maintain you ALREADY BOUGHT plugin, what a shit !

Zamakli, the Waves Wup program doesn't require you to pay to maintain the plugin you bought. It requires you to pay after the first year if additional plugins are added to the bundle.

UAD definitely does this too. If you have the UAD Neve bundle, you're aware that when they released the 1083 preamp as a the standalone, they still make Neve bundle owners buy it, even though the 1083 preamp is the red knob that's already attached to the 1073 channel strip. They issue numerous bug fixes and feature updates to any of their major bundles periodically. They've added tons of new plugins to the Mercury bundle over the past few years. Why do you feel Waves doesn't improve their plugins?
 
Zamakli, the Waves Wup program doesn't require you to pay to maintain the plugin you bought. It requires you to pay after the first year if additional plugins are added to the bundle.

Maybe I'm not quite understanding you...Waves may not "require" you to pay...but they do have both an "Update Plan" which you would have to pay for after one year...and they also have an "Upgrade"...and they do push for people to stay current with those plans.
I have NO idea WTF their "Update Plan" gives you...because Waves almost never "updates" any of their plugs, like zamakli was saying.
It's total BS to ask people to keep paying into a plugin "update" plan when plugins are never really updated.

I once called them and asked if/when they were planning to fix a few things in a couple of their plugs, and adjust how some options where being displayed...etc...
...and they said there were no plans do any further developing on those plugs...so then really...WTF is an "Update Plan"...??? :facepalm: :D

Do this day...I have never once paid the Update Plan on any plug...I just let it expire after one year...and ALL my Waves plugs work now the same as when I bought them.

Then there's the "Upgrade" program...which is yet another thing they want you to buy into...but I can't for the life of me understand what it's for and how it differs from the "Update Plan".
IMO...just a lot of nonsense to get you to keep paying for plugs you already bought.
Most apps, if they come out with a new version...they might ask you pay for the update...but the only thing Waves comes with that's new is their core programming...the V7, V8, V9 and V10. It's like...every couple of years or so, they go to the next "Vx"...BUT...NOTHING is ever upgraded/updated with the actual plugins....NOTHING. Oh there's the occasional bug fix, but that's usually sorted out in the initial V9x or V10x...and then those plugs are done. You can go up a couple of "Vx" versions, and your old plugs will look and function the same...so then what's the Update/Upgrade stuff?

I also never bought into their "bundle" nonsense...and have simply purchased individual plugs when they were on sale...so I now have my preferred Waves "bundle" that only contains the plugs I wanted...and at the sale prices, the total cost is way less than if I had tried to buy a bundle that had all the same plugs.
Granted...sometimes you have to wait awhile for some plugs to go on a really great sale...but honestly...they all do at some point. Plugs that were $100-$300 each...have been on sale for as low as $29 in time.

Don't get me wrong...I like most of my Waves plugs...I just don't buy into their "plans and bundles", and I think it's somewhat "scam-ish" on their part with the Update Plan renewals, for plugs that never see updates.

AFA the UAD stuff...I think they too are starting to suffer from "been there, done that"...and I see the love affair is ending for some people...but I also think much of that is the never ending need to always be moving to the next new thing in the audio world. :)

OK...sorry for the pricing/update segue (though I didn't initiate it)... ;) ...but I've always been irritated by how Waves does that stuff.
 
Hmm. The last 3 times I opened Waves Central, it said it had to update the plugins, as well as the app itself. I use the CLA compressors, Vocal Rider, Schepps Console, and one of the EQ's. I could see them not updating older plugins, cause those are all relatively new.
 
Well if your using Waves Central with an online DAWsetup...it's always going to be updating itself....and eventually may force you to pay for the update plans when the system version exceeds your versions....because it's always checking.

I run offline, so Waves Central has no access to my DAW installed plugs.
If those updates are actually fixing something...I've never noticed, and I've also not had any serious issues using the plugs I bought 5 years ago...even though I've never done any pay-for Update or Upgrade.

Waves will even tell you that you don't need to update...they just leave the possibility that at some point, when you upgrade your system, it will be a chain of events that will force you to upgrade all your plugs too.
Like...when they start issueing plugs that are only Win10 compatible...and you buy one, but are still on Win7. So you then upgrade to Win10 because you want that plugin...and then suddenly all those old plugs need to be brought up to the lates Waves Vx...which is a newere version than what you have...you'll have to pay.

I just stay offline, and at this point have parked it with V9...and I can't see any new, substantially interesting-got-to-have-it plugin coming from Waves. I already have pretty much every Waves plug that I ever wanted (some that I didn't, but bought anyway)...so I'm probably done with my Waves plugin purchasing...and certainly no need to do the Update/Upgrade plans.
Running a DAW online...you're not in complete control of that....and that's not just Waves. Other software companies also "monitor" your plugin versions/usage when you run you DAW online. They update their plugin portal, and then make you update...which then check your plugs, and so on.

I actually think they really hate the guys who run their DAWs offline. :p

Then there's the new subscription model that everyone is moving to or at least offering as an alternative...but IMO, that's just another way to have greater control of your plugs and when you have to upgrade them and subsequently the new prices you will have to pay to do so.
 
Well if your using Waves Central with an online DAWsetup...it's always going to be updating itself....and eventually may force you to pay for the update plans when the system version exceeds your versions....because it's always checking.

I run offline, so Waves Central has no access to my DAW installed plugs.
If those updates are actually fixing something...I've never noticed, and I've also not had any serious issues using the plugs I bought 5 years ago...even though I've never done any pay-for Update or Upgrade.

Waves will even tell you that you don't need to update...they just leave the possibility that at some point, when you upgrade your system, it will be a chain of events that will force you to upgrade all your plugs too.
Like...when they start issueing plugs that are only Win10 compatible...and you buy one, but are still on Win7. So you then upgrade to Win10 because you want that plugin...and then suddenly all those old plugs need to be brought up to the lates Waves Vx...which is a newere version than what you have...you'll have to pay.

I just stay offline, and at this point have parked it with V9...and I can't see any new, substantially interesting-got-to-have-it plugin coming from Waves. I already have pretty much every Waves plug that I ever wanted (some that I didn't, but bought anyway)...so I'm probably done with my Waves plugin purchasing...and certainly no need to do the Update/Upgrade plans.
Running a DAW online...you're not in complete control of that....and that's not just Waves. Other software companies also "monitor" your plugin versions/usage when you run you DAW online. They update their plugin portal, and then make you update...which then check your plugs, and so on.

I actually think they really hate the guys who run their DAWs offline. :p

Then there's the new subscription model that everyone is moving to or at least offering as an alternative...but IMO, that's just another way to have greater control of your plugs and when you have to upgrade them and subsequently the new prices you will have to pay to do so.

I run offline as well; when I get a new plugin, I just connect to the internet real quick (via the yellow cable, old phone jack looking thingy from my router upstairs, my DAW pc has no wifi) then after I install the plugin I pull the cable and I'm right back offline. Last time I bought a Waves plugin was the MV2 and Dbx160 a few months ago, I've never had to update Waves Central. Sounds like I might have to soon, like maybe the next time I buy a new plugin? Are new updates floatin' around now?

Miroslav, what do you do when you get a new plugin? Should I maybe install Waves Central on my online laptop as well, and download new plugins there, and transfer the install files to the DAW pc via flashdrive? It's actually a pain in the butt everytime I get a new plugin; I have to tear down the entire desktop from downstairs and bring the tower upstairs to hook it to the router, and download and install the plugins.
 
I never plug my DAW into the network...never.

What I do is use my online laptop to download/authenticate any new plugs...and there's always an offline installation method with all software vendors.

Even plugging it in for a short time to download/install...it's the same as being online if you're using their portal to download and install to the DAW...which is different than using an offline installer method.
Not to mention...my DAW has no anti-virus, the OS has never been patched or updated...so even connecting for a few minutes is a risk.

I've been doing it like that for the last 15-20 years now...never had an issue, but for some people, doing the offline installer is not "convenient", because you have to do a few more steps, and move some files around manually, using a flash/external drive, etc. They're too use to having it all just happen automatically behind the scenes...but that's why you eventually lose control of your system, and it ends up being all handled by the portals, like Waves Central.
I still use Waves Central and other manufacturer portals...but always with my online laptop...and I always choose the offline installation option.
 
Maybe I'm not quite understanding you...Waves may not "require" you to pay...but they do have both an "Update Plan" which you would have to pay for after one year...and they also have an "Upgrade"...and they do push for people to stay current with those plans.
I have NO idea WTF their "Update Plan" gives you...because Waves almost never "updates" any of their plugs, like zamakli was saying.
It's total BS to ask people to keep paying into a plugin "update" plan when plugins are never really updated.
Waves is constantly adding things to their bundles. It won't add to the CLA or SLL or API bundles, but its been adding all kinds of stuff to their Abbey Road, Mercury, and Audio Post stuff. They've updated at least 4 times a year for as long as I can remember. There was a real big one lately that moved all plugins to v10 and overhauled the licensing structure.

I once called them and asked if/when they were planning to fix a few things in a couple of their plugs, and adjust how some options where being displayed...etc...
...and they said there were no plans do any further developing on those plugs...so then really...WTF is an "Update Plan"...??? :facepalm: :D
What plugin?
Do this day...I have never once paid the Update Plan on any plug...I just let it expire after one year...and ALL my Waves plugs work now the same as when I bought them.
Then yeah, you probably don't need to be paying for that update ;) Doesn't sound like it'd do much good.
Then there's the "Upgrade" program...which is yet another thing they want you to buy into...but I can't for the life of me understand what it's for and how it differs from the "Update Plan".
IMO...just a lot of nonsense to get you to keep paying for plugs you already bought.
See next post...
Most apps, if they come out with a new version...they might ask you pay for the update...but the only thing Waves comes with that's new is their core programming...the V7, V8, V9 and V10. It's like...every couple of years or so, they go to the next "Vx"...BUT...NOTHING is ever upgraded/updated with the actual plugins....NOTHING. Oh there's the occasional bug fix, but that's usually sorted out in the initial V9x or V10x...and then those plugs are done. You can go up a couple of "Vx" versions, and your old plugs will look and function the same...so then what's the Update/Upgrade stuff?
See next post...
I also never bought into their "bundle" nonsense...and have simply purchased individual plugs when they were on sale...so I now have my preferred Waves "bundle" that only contains the plugs I wanted...and at the sale prices, the total cost is way less than if I had tried to buy a bundle that had all the same plugs.
Granted...sometimes you have to wait awhile for some plugs to go on a really great sale...but honestly...they all do at some point. Plugs that were $100-$300 each...have been on sale for as low as $29 in time.
The reason I bought the Mercury is because the plugins Waves makes that can't be emulated with any built in DAW features and are only available from Waves haven't gone on sale in the entire time they've been released. Once I got the Mercury set in place, I found the update plan to be a really good deal because the price caps at $225 for every plugin registered to your library. You just click the 'one machine' button and it implements the cap. ALSO - if you spend $225 on your W-up, you get a $225 voucher. This is a pretty sweet deal in my opinion. 25% of that can be applied to individual plugins, up to 50% of that can be applied to bundles. The voucher does not work on their hardware though (which is what I need it for at this point!)

Don't get me wrong...I like most of my Waves plugs...I just don't buy into their "plans and bundles", and I think it's somewhat "scam-ish" on their part with the Update Plan renewals, for plugs that never see updates.
I personally wouldn't call it scamish but after the way you described your situation, it definitely doesn't sound like it would benefit you at all lol.
AFA the UAD stuff...I think they too are starting to suffer from "been there, done that"...and I see the love affair is ending for some people...but I also think much of that is the never ending need to always be moving to the next new thing in the audio world. :)
My take on UAD is that people will continue to use it as long as they feel no one else is making hardware emulators better. Most of the die hard UAD users like myself swear by them because they're the closest thing we can find to the real hardware, and the way they've implemented the features makes them highly usable. For example, I don't know of another Neve 1081 or 1073 that models non-linearities. I can't even find a Shadow Hills emulator that even begins to resemble the Hardware. The Massive Passive is far more accurate than the Native Instruments or Plugin Alliance version.
 
Screen Shot 2018-08-01 at 10.54.19 AM.pngScreen Shot 2018-08-01 at 10.54.28 AM.png

So here's what up with the Update vs the Waves Up. The update is a dollar-for-dollar discount towards the total price of the bundle which certain plugins are included in. The Abbey Road plugins don't sell as a bundle. You pay for the bundle and get 10 individual licenses as per Waves agreement with Abbey Road's publishing admins. The same would apply for the Mercury bundle. If you had 50 Mercury Plugins, it would drop the price of the Mercury bundle by the amount you spent on each plugin at the time you purchased it.

This is only useful to someone who is looking to convert individual plugins to a consolidated bundle. If you aren't, then that may be why the deal hasn't made sense when you view it from inside your account.
 
This is only useful to someone who is looking to convert individual plugins to a consolidated bundle. If you aren't, then that may be why the deal hasn't made sense when you view it from inside your account.

The point was...I never liked every plugin that Waves included in any given bundle...so that's why I never wanted to go the bundle route.
AFA the Mercury bundle...again, I didn't like every plug in there, so why pay that crazy price for the bundle.

I have 40 (last count) Waves plugs that I individually selected that cost me substantially less than what you paid for the Mercury bundle.
At this point...Waves adding the occasional plugin to any bundle is probably going to be one more of something you already have...like another comp or reverb or what have you. There's just not that much left they can add that will make that much difference on the production side...unless they add more of those "signature" plugs where they create some sort of channel strip thingy, and have some name engineer autograph it...and it feels like it's something new, but it's just a collection of already existing Waves algorithms repackaged into something new so they can sell it.
Also...there's not to many vintage pieces of actual hardware gear left for them (or anyone) to model...it's all been done to death...which is why I say I'm good to go with the Waves stuff, and most of my other plugs to. :)
 
The WUP merely informs you of updates. It does not force them. I personal dislike the update manager style of installations and subscription crap that everyone has gone to. I can tell you that I have the Latest WUP and have 4-5 plugins that are version 10 that work perfectly without paying to upgrade to Waveshell 10.* even though it states it as a requirement. When Installing it always asks to update all my other plugins with the warning that it requires the new Waveshell so I just click no update. I just purchased the Abbey road chambers verb which wasn't available as a version 9 so I tried it only because I got a super deal and figured I wouldn't be out much if it didn't. Works fine , no problems. I am finding this is the case with much of my software, for instance I am still using Win7Ult even though much of my software claims it's only supported in Win10.
 
The WUP merely informs you of updates. It does not force them. I personal dislike the update manager style of installations and subscription crap that everyone has gone to. I can tell you that I have the Latest WUP and have 4-5 plugins that are version 10 that work perfectly without paying to upgrade to Waveshell 10.* even though it states it as a requirement. When Installing it always asks to update all my other plugins with the warning that it requires the new Waveshell so I just click no update. I just purchased the Abbey road chambers verb which wasn't available as a version 9 so I tried it only because I got a super deal and figured I wouldn't be out much if it didn't. Works fine , no problems. I am finding this is the case with much of my software, for instance I am still using Win7Ult even though much of my software claims it's only supported in Win10.

I've seen issues with running different (V7, V8, V9, V10) plugins in the same installation. Maybe it works, but it gets messy, because unlike most other plugin installs, Waves packages ALL the plugins into one DLL file...and when you have multiple Vx versions...it can glitch, or you end up with multiple DLL entries, etc.
Anyway, I was told by a Waves tech awhile back it's best to always have them all up to the same version to avoid any issues.
Once I tried installing across more than one Vx version...and plugs were not showing up or I was seeing double entries...etc.

So do you like the AR Chambers?
I saw that deal...and since I have the AR Plates, I was tempted...but didn't feel like messing with the Waves V9 installation over one more plugin...I've got so many reverb plugs already that I'm not using much. It's just one of those "nice to have" things, to go with the AR Plates. :D
I'm sure by next year, they will issue the Abbey Road Lobby reverb plugs! :p
 
I'm embarrassed to say I haven't really used it so much as just testing to make sure it worked. I have noted to myself that I often find chamber settings seem to be my most go to verb spaces so I figured I couldn't go far wrong. I have and love the plates for big trashy drum sounds but for things like lead vox its a bit over the top most of the time on the stuff I record. I have also had problems with running multiple waveshells up to versions 9.*. Right now there are 4 waveshells in ProTools plugsin file:9.7, 9.92 and 2 versions of 10.0. I didn't purchase 10. but it comes with the purchase of plugin that is version 10. I will probably try to run it with one version of 10 and maybe experiment with 10 alone, but when I upgraded to 9.92 I tried removing 9.7 I couldn't get ANY waves plugins to load at all so I put it back. I may experiment with stuff to see if it will work but when something does work, I ain't gonna fool with it on my main system until I know for sure and have experimented on one of my laptop setups. Lobby plugin, good 'un:thumbs up:
 
I have noted to myself that I often find chamber settings seem to be my most go to verb spaces so I figured I couldn't go far wrong. I have and love the plates for big trashy drum sounds but for things like lead vox its a bit over the top most of the time on the stuff I record.

I've got a few preferred 'verbs too...and I have to admit, I too haven't used my Waves Abbey Road Plates much since getting them, but then I also bought the Waves H-Reverb and have note used it once...because recently I got the Plugin Alliance bx_rooMS reverb, which it top notch and pretty straightforward.
Plus I have a other soft reverbs...and figured I could live without the AR Chambers and having to go through any V9/V10 reinstallations (I like to keep the installs clean, and only run one Waveshells)...but the big reason I've stopped buying more soft verbs is because in a moment of GAS madness, I picked up a TC Electronic Reverb 4000 hardware unit a few months back.
It wasn't a totally mad decision...because I'm still mixing OTB from the DAW, so I wanted I high-end main reverb unit (I have 4 other racked 'verbs)...and the 4000 blows away most of the soft stuff, plus, it's tied digitally to my DAW, so I can use the hardware unit even when mixing ITB...same way I use some of the soft reverbs when I mix OTB.
Yeah...a bit overkill...but I have a ton of reverb options now...so I'll let the AR Chambers go... :p ...but post back after you've used them a bit. I would like to know how good they are.
 
AR Chambers go... :p ...but post back after you've used them a bit. I would like to know how good they are.

I haven't used them quite enough to be able to tell if they're on par with the Plates which I think are one of the best plugins they've ever made for guys that mix music. I thought the plates were bringing a really neat sound to the table, even despite the UAD version. For me the question is going to be how well this chamber plugin holds up against the Bricasti. The Abbey Road plates do very well against far more expensive plugins and outboard gear. I'll have to mess with the Chamber plugs a bit more to really be able to comment :)
 
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