Monitors or Cans?

Hey guys.
This relates to a project a friend and I are going to be pushing forward with in the coming weeks...
In terms of mixing... would we be better served by a set of monitors, or a set of good quality headphones? The versatility aspect of headphones is what I am hung up on... good cans will give good sound, can provide relative reference for overdubbing, and as my computer speakers blow, provide me with a better way to listen to music, and game occasionally.

Also, part of our running theory is that most people listen to music through either their computers, iPods, or car stereo systems... so getting a mix that sounds good on something slightly more than "status quo" might help generate a solid mix that sounds good on the average sound system?

Is there any logical fault with this theory? We're making due with little, and throwing down $80-150 on a quality set of headphones isn't unreasonable... and it would have multi-use potential. On the right track? Wrong track?

I posted this under mixing technique, as I want to hear from those who actively mix their tracks. If it would be better served in a different section of the forum, please let me know.
 
Ear isolation, skewed low end response, the inability to hear phase relationships -- Headphones are generally in the "unacceptable" category. Sure, they're great for "zooming in" on anomalies and what not - but didn't you ever notice that "everything sounds good" on headphones...?
 
Ear isolation, skewed low end response, the inability to hear phase relationships -- Headphones are generally in the "unacceptable" category. Sure, they're great for "zooming in" on anomalies and what not - but didn't you ever notice that "everything sounds good" on headphones...?

Just wondering. I saw that even the cheaper AKG headphones have a range from 18Hz-20KHz whereas my KRK RP5's start at 53Hz (IIRC). Wouldn't I be able to compensate those first 30-40Hz by using headphones? Why do you say that they have skewed low ends?

It certainly is a lot cheaper than buying a sub :)
 
Skewed as in "inconsistent and unreliable." Subs are another story as well (a story which I avoid at nearly all costs).

Headphones (and improperly calibrated subs) are no substitute for accurate, consistent, full-range monitoring.

"Having the low end available" and hearing 6dB more 50Hz because you drank a glass of water 15 minutes ago, or it's only been 30 minutes since you woke up (your face is still slightly swollen and your cans are just that tiny bit tighter than usual, completely throwing out any hope of accuracy) are two different things.
 
as my computer speakers blow, [cans] provide me with a better way to listen to music, and game occasionally.
Choosing between your average set of cans and your average set of computer speakers is like choosing between mustard gas and napalm. It doesn't much matter much which one you get hit with, it'll probably mess you up either way.

A very good set of headphones is better than a lousy set of speakers, but we're not talking about your typical <$100 set of phones here.

And on the other hand, a fine set of speakers is better than almost any set of headphones, but we're not talking your typical set of gaming speakers or the cheaper so-called "studio monitors" that are really just glorified computer speakers, even if they do include a sub. We're talking getting a set of speakers or monitors that actually do the job.

And we haven't even began talking about the importance of the room and the setup of your music station within it, and how that can or cannot mes with your speakers.

G.
 
I tried mixing on a $150 pair of headphones, but they hid comb filtering and didn't show enough detail for accurate mixing, as my monitors revealed instantly when I hooked them up. I can't see any way to go other than having quality headphones for tracking and quality monitors for mixing.
 
Choosing between your average set of cans and your average set of computer speakers is like choosing between mustard gas and napalm. It doesn't much matter much which one you get hit with, it'll probably mess you up either way.

A very good set of headphones is better than a lousy set of speakers, but we're not talking about your typical <$100 set of phones here.

And on the other hand, a fine set of speakers is better than almost any set of headphones, but we're not talking your typical set of gaming speakers or the cheaper so-called "studio monitors" that are really just glorified computer speakers, even if they do include a sub. We're talking getting a set of speakers or monitors that actually do the job.

And we haven't even began talking about the importance of the room and the setup of your music station within it, and how that can or cannot mes with your speakers.

G.
^^^^^ this ^^^^^ this ^^^^^^ and this ^^^^^^
 
So, even if we are working in relatively poor conditions (as recording areas are more or less going to be our computer offices, with maybe some treating), using dynamics most of the time, we'd still be better off mixing with studio monitors. This is what I am hearing from the posts. I'm interpreting that correctly, yes?

Anyone have a recommended brand for someone on a tight budget?
 
So, even if we are working in relatively poor conditions (as recording areas are more or less going to be our computer offices, with maybe some treating), using dynamics most of the time, we'd still be better off mixing with studio monitors. This is what I am hearing from the posts. I'm interpreting that correctly, yes?

Anyone have a recommended brand for someone on a tight budget?

yes. you add the room to the equation with computer monitors, and with some treating, you can get your monitors to be pretty accurate. I use some Alesis cheap M1 active 520's, I love them, never had a problem with them, and i've had them for about 4 years, can't say a bad thing about them. they will run you about 2-250
 
I'll have to look into Alesis. We used to use a few different Alesis products back when... always found them to be solid for the money. Any opinion on the M-audio monitors? What about The AKG cans for just general listening/honing in?
 
NS10's were never made to sound "good" -- They were made to give you a reference of what mixes would sound like on "the small, crappy speakers."
 
NS-10s weren't even made for the studio. They were bookshelf speakers meant for small home stereo systems. It wasn't until they became "fashionable" for engineers to carry around with them from studio to studio as a cheap home speaker reference listen that Yamaha joined the bandwagon, put the "m" on the back of the model number (to indicate "monitor"), and actually started marketing them as studio monitors.

That said, some people prefer mixing on heavily midranged speakers like the NS-10. To each their own. But that's the thing; everybody has different preferences, especially in "home recording". There are those that love their NS-10s and those that loathe them (personally, I lean a bit more to the later than the former.) Either way one's recommendation means NOTHING to the next guy over unless their ears and tastes happen to be identical.

G.
 
NS-10s weren't even made for the studio. They were bookshelf speakers meant for small home stereo systems. It wasn't until they became "fashionable" for engineers to carry around with them from studio to studio as a cheap home speaker reference listen that Yamaha joined the bandwagon, put the "m" on the back of the model number (to indicate "monitor"), and actually started marketing them as studio monitors.

That said, some people prefer mixing on heavily midranged speakers like the NS-10. To each their own. But that's the thing; everybody has different preferences, especially in "home recording". There are those that love their NS-10s and those that loathe them (personally, I lean a bit more to the later than the former.) Either way one's recommendation means NOTHING to the next guy over unless their ears and tastes happen to be identical.

G.
beat me to it ........ they were just crappy home bookshelf speakers that some guys started using for the 'crappy' speaker view and with thise white woofer cones , they caught peoples' eyes easily and made them go, "What are those?" and immediately an audio myth was born.
 
beat me to it ........ they were just crappy home bookshelf speakers that some guys started using for the 'crappy' speaker view and with thise white woofer cones , they caught peoples' eyes easily and made them go, "What are those?" and immediately an audio myth was born.
Yep. As the story goes, it was supposedly Bob Clearmountain that started it all (though. honestly I have never been able to completely confirm that myself.) He started carrying them with him from studio to studio as he worked on various projects. He just wanted something that didn't have all that extended of a response to simulate a typical home system (remember, those big wooden consoles that were really furniture with the whole stereo system of only middling quality from turntable to speakers built right in were the mainline home listening environment back then.) Not so much to actually mix on, as something to check the mixes on to check for home compatability.

Other engineers liked the idea and wanted to start doing the same thing. Th NS-10, with it's white cone, like you say, became the Gucci bag of engineers to carry with them. This led to studios wanting to add them to their gear list to have on hand already so they could attract these engineers to come to them and use their facilities to make their records without having to carry their own speakers with them wherever they went.

Yamaha caught wind of this, and not wanting to miss a completely new marketing opportunity for making money off of their product, put a different tweeter on the NS-10, called it the NS-10M, and marketed it to custom houses that supplied the pro studio industry. The funny thing is, a large number of the engineers thought the tweeter upgrade was a mistake, and preferred using the original NS-10 home speakers. When they used the "M" version, they often taped a swatch of tissue paper over the tweeter to soften it's harshness a little bit.

But, of course, once the home recording market starting opening up, the retailers that catered to that market start saying, "Oh, baby, the famous NS-10M is a favorite of the pros!. You should have them in your own home studio!" They never said why they were a favorite of the pros though; they couldn't sell as many that way. So they sold them as channel A main mixing nearfields, and a new legend was born out of the old one.

G.
 
Interesting read Glen. So, if I want something to reference close to a home stereo system, get the Yamahas. Lol.
What about KRK monitors? They seem to be popular with the membership here. I figure there is a reason. When I get around to monitors, active I think is about the only way to go. My space is limited. Ha ha ha!
 
Interesting read Glen. So, if I want something to reference close to a home stereo system, get the Yamahas. Lol.
What about KRK monitors? They seem to be popular with the membership here. I figure there is a reason. When I get around to monitors, active I think is about the only way to go. My space is limited. Ha ha ha!
If you want to reference a home stereo system in the 1970s, I guess. Very few people have systems today that resemble - visually or sonically - those used back when the NS-10 myth was beginning ;).

But like I said earlier, some people actually like the NS-10 kind of sound, and actually like mixing home mixes on them. If that's what works for them, who's to complain?

Now the KRK story is interesting. As the legend goes, the first KRK nearfield appeared in a vision to a young Ecuadoran farm boy, rising on an open clamshell out of the local lake, with a siren voice from the heavens beseeching to the boy a set of recording commandments, including what eventually became both the 3:1 rule and the equilateral nearfield monitor setup rule...

:D

Nah, you know my response. If the speaker fits your ears, use it, and use only those that fit your ears. The only way to know is to give them a listen. If one of the KRKs works for you, fine. If not, try something else. The same with every other loudspeaker out there.

G.
 
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