Hello guys-its almost 7 AM and I just got back from my rehearsal space after another long night of mixing, so please forgive me if this is not quite coherent...I have a kind of complicated question. I was just wondering what kind of process you guys go through to decide how to get vocals to sit in the mix. There seems to be such a wide range of options (and I am just talking about certain effects, and not the different ways of using compression and EQ) available to get vocals their own "space" in the mix: 1)delay (single, multitap, stereo, mono-also varying feedback, length of time etc.), 2)reverb (plate, hall, or room, with different amounts of early reflections, damping, and decay time), and 3)pitch modulation (chorus, flanger, pitch-shifter, and I don't even know what the settings of LFO, envelope, manual, and resonance sine/triangle actually do), or a combination of these, or dry. I feel like I spend WAY too much time exploring all my options for getting the vocals to sit right in different parts of songs, and I am never sure if they are as good as they can possibly be, or even sometimes what exactly my goal is! I was just wondering if any of you guys have some sort of guidelines which you go by when choosing between all of these effects. Also, when choosing between these options, do you base your decision more on how the effect makes the vocals sit in the mix, or do you base it more on the emotional quality that a certain effect gives? I realize that a lot has to do with the kind of music you play (ex.- a Ramones' style punk band is more than likely not going to use plate reverb with 3 seconds decay time combined with stereo crossed mutitap delay and just a tiny touch of hi-band flanger for their chorus vocals). But I do seem to notice a lot of different combinations in just the basic new hard rock song on the radio today, and I can't always even tell what exactly is going on with the vocals in these songs, or more importantly, WHY THE PRODUCER DECIDED TO USE THESE PARTICULAR EFFECTS. Anyway, maybe these questions, or my assumptions about this might seem a little strange, but any comments will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
mixing vocals
- Thread starter baerstev
- Start date
mixandmaster
New member
The best way to get a vocal to sit in the mix is to record it using the best chain and the best technique possible. After that...if it's heavy music, you can compress the life out of it, then you don't have to ride faders as much, but if it's dynamic music, I usually ride the fader, send the vocals through an aux and gently hit a compressor/eq AFTER I have ridden the fader.
This gives a nice even amount of volume AND compression on the whole performance, and you can have more control over how hard you HIT the compressor.
As far as reverb/delay, you're right, it depends on the music involved. My rule of thumb is the more dense the accompaniment, the less effects on vocal. My main concern is getting the vocal to cut through without having it dominate the mix volume-wise. If it's an more "open" sounding arrangement, I tend to thicken the vocal sound more.
This gives a nice even amount of volume AND compression on the whole performance, and you can have more control over how hard you HIT the compressor.
As far as reverb/delay, you're right, it depends on the music involved. My rule of thumb is the more dense the accompaniment, the less effects on vocal. My main concern is getting the vocal to cut through without having it dominate the mix volume-wise. If it's an more "open" sounding arrangement, I tend to thicken the vocal sound more.
Massive Master
www.massivemastering.com
If they're "vital-vocals" I tend to get them right about where I think they're going to be by themselves.
Then, bring one track up at a time and look for things that "argue" with the vocals. EQ or process so they don't mask the vocal track anymore.
Now that you'e got a bunch of tracks that don't mask the vocal, bring them all up to find out what's arguing with each other and tweak for a while.
It almost takes care of itself.
Then, bring one track up at a time and look for things that "argue" with the vocals. EQ or process so they don't mask the vocal track anymore.
Now that you'e got a bunch of tracks that don't mask the vocal, bring them all up to find out what's arguing with each other and tweak for a while.
It almost takes care of itself.
Middleman
Professional Amateur
Track the vocals right for detail and a convincing performance.
Then mix around the vocals.
Never adjust the vocals to the mix unless you are already backed into a corner or you are working with background vocals.
Think in terms of major frequency zones when recording a vocal oriented tune. You have to get the low end kick/bass zone done first, these generally don't interfere with the vocal. Put a scratch rhythm instrument for the chordal basic, and then record the vocal which is mid-range on males and mid high on females. Throw out that rhythm track or EQ it temporarily around the vocal. Put these elements together and build a mix. Once this is as good as you can get it, build the other instruments in the zones around this core base. If there is zone interference with the vocal, push those instruments to the side with pan control or back in the mix with short reverb or even slight delay to set it after the vocal.
Make sure hyper active fingers, i.e. excessive instrument notes, are filling non vocal space or, at the very least, are matching vocal movement.
The big mistake I hear all the time is guitar players building walls of sound and then slapping the vocal on the track. Good wall of sound guitars are built around, behind or in between vocal points.
Vocal effects come at the end.
Ok, now I'm ranting. Just my experience across time and space.
Then mix around the vocals.
Never adjust the vocals to the mix unless you are already backed into a corner or you are working with background vocals.
Think in terms of major frequency zones when recording a vocal oriented tune. You have to get the low end kick/bass zone done first, these generally don't interfere with the vocal. Put a scratch rhythm instrument for the chordal basic, and then record the vocal which is mid-range on males and mid high on females. Throw out that rhythm track or EQ it temporarily around the vocal. Put these elements together and build a mix. Once this is as good as you can get it, build the other instruments in the zones around this core base. If there is zone interference with the vocal, push those instruments to the side with pan control or back in the mix with short reverb or even slight delay to set it after the vocal.
Make sure hyper active fingers, i.e. excessive instrument notes, are filling non vocal space or, at the very least, are matching vocal movement.
The big mistake I hear all the time is guitar players building walls of sound and then slapping the vocal on the track. Good wall of sound guitars are built around, behind or in between vocal points.
Vocal effects come at the end.
Ok, now I'm ranting. Just my experience across time and space.
"Once this is as good as you can get it, build the other instruments in the zones around this core base. If there is zone interference with the vocal, push those instruments to the side with pan control or back in the mix with short reverb or even slight delay to set it after the vocal. "
Yep, I was going to add that, I think its very important. get the main vocal straight in the middle and pan those instruments that compete with it for tonal space out to the left and right, so that's guitars, keyboards, etc.
Some people recomend bringing in the vocal at the ealriest stage of mixing, so you you can add the other instruments and 'work round' it, rather than getting everything mixed perefectly, then introducing the vocal at the end only to find you can't hear it as other instruments are already occupying its tonal space and the only way you hear it is to push the fader up and up, then the vocal doesn't sound like it fits in with the mix but above it, and so on....
I guess it's like an analogy of colours on a canvass.
if you have a layer of red in the centre of the canvass and add another layer of red on top then you'll only see the top layer. Instead if you place the new block of red slightly to the left or right of the original then you can see both blocks of red. Alternatively you can change the shade slightly, and place one over the other and you'll now see parts of both.
With sound, instead of colours, we adjust the EQ to make the instruments slightly different tones, and when we get it right we can hear everything in the mix.
Hey I'm no expert, far from it, but this is what I've learned from other people here.
Good luck.
Yep, I was going to add that, I think its very important. get the main vocal straight in the middle and pan those instruments that compete with it for tonal space out to the left and right, so that's guitars, keyboards, etc.
Some people recomend bringing in the vocal at the ealriest stage of mixing, so you you can add the other instruments and 'work round' it, rather than getting everything mixed perefectly, then introducing the vocal at the end only to find you can't hear it as other instruments are already occupying its tonal space and the only way you hear it is to push the fader up and up, then the vocal doesn't sound like it fits in with the mix but above it, and so on....
I guess it's like an analogy of colours on a canvass.
if you have a layer of red in the centre of the canvass and add another layer of red on top then you'll only see the top layer. Instead if you place the new block of red slightly to the left or right of the original then you can see both blocks of red. Alternatively you can change the shade slightly, and place one over the other and you'll now see parts of both.
With sound, instead of colours, we adjust the EQ to make the instruments slightly different tones, and when we get it right we can hear everything in the mix.
Hey I'm no expert, far from it, but this is what I've learned from other people here.
Good luck.