mixing reverb question

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hey lets say i have 2 very similar sounds that share similar frequencies and i want to have good separation. Besides panning wouldn't it make sense to use 2 different reverbs? I mean if i have 2 similar sounds in the same hall reverb send doesnt that increase the likelyhood of them fighting eachother and better to use two different hall verbs?
 
If you are talking about instruments, I don't like using 2 different reverbs, I use one for all the instruments to make them sound like they are in the same space. Depending on how you have panned the track, you can pan the reverb similarly to keep your separation.
 
If the reverb is on a separate, stereo aux/bus and your tracks are panned, the reverb will still reflect that (no pun intended), and unless you've got it dialed crazy high or flip polairty, is not going to change the overall balance enough to worry about (IMO/IME).

I use the same reverb for space/spacing/depth/homogonizing/whatever that way for everything, just dialing in the amount on the sends. Of course you can include obvious reverb (or delay) effects where it makes sense, but those would go on the individual tracks.
 
hey lets say i have 2 very similar sounds that share similar frequencies and i want to have good separation. Besides panning wouldn't it make sense to use 2 different reverbs? I mean if i have 2 similar sounds in the same hall reverb send doesnt that increase the likelyhood of them fighting eachother and better to use two different hall verbs?

That part, not necessarily. But there also this; Time based effects (delay, reverb and recorded or effects like short room reflections) that lie in close to the source- like less than 10 milliseconds or so, are heard as blending in as part of the source.
So using a common short 'close in' time effects could be seen as blurring them together. (Short stuff like this also has the effect of having us hear them 'back and in the space.. see below..

But having some pre delay dialed in -often built into things like a hall verb for example, would remove that aspect of it.
What would remain are these two or more sources 'up front untouched' more or less in the panned field perhaps, with the diffuse verb blend behind them.
 
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I usually use the same reverb on the vocals and instruments as I like them to sound in the same space, but different amounts on different things or you can swamp the mix.

However exception is I often have a different reverb on the drums as I like to use plate verbs on drums. Even to the point of having a plate on the snare and maybe a little of the main reverb on the toms, as I usually record real kits there is spill anyway so a little of the verbs on the drums get picked up.

Alan.
 
Another way to reduce mud/build up when using separate reverbs is to automate them so that the level is reduced or even muted when that instrument isn't "out front" . IOW I have seen some engineers ride a vocal reverb and/or delay up only at the end of a line right before the instrumentation comes back up then ride it back down during the actual singing. I know it sounds weird but if you are using multiple verbs as inserts or even separate aux's it can be a good method for keeping clarity in the mix.
 
If the reverb is on a separate, stereo aux/bus and your tracks are panned, the reverb will still reflect that...
This is not necessarily true. Many popular reverb units and plugins actually sum the stereo input to mono before processing. They might apply slight different process to each side of the output so that there is some noticeable "stereoness" to it, but it won't actually follow the panning at the input. There was a chart out there somewhere that listed a bunch of plugins and which were "true stereo", "dual mono", or "mono>stereo", but I can't seem to find it right now.
 
To me it depends on the song. Sometimes I want cohesion, sometimes not. But, yes, changing the parameters does help. I think somebody else mentioned changing the predelay, etc, yes I do that. Here's something I've done to separate. One guitar track dry but only panned say at about 60-70. Copy the track, put the reverb of choice on the new track, but way heavier than normal. Pan that hard with volume at 0. Start bringing the wet track up until you hear the guitar in one place but the reverb is a little to the outside. Keeps reverb out of the middle zone.
 
hey lets say i have 2 very similar sounds that share similar frequencies and i want to have good separation. Besides panning wouldn't it make sense to use 2 different reverbs? I mean if i have 2 similar sounds in the same hall reverb send doesnt that increase the likelyhood of them fighting eachother and better to use two different hall verbs?

If you do this, the general rule of thumb is shorter-brighter / longer-darker. Same goes for stacking delays.

No it doesn't increase the likelihood of them fighting. You decrease that likelihood by doing the opposite. Bus them both to the same verb. The manipulation of the source is what will preserve your clarity, not the distinctiveness of each verb.

Its not uncommon for pro engineers to stack reverbs, but when we do this, there are very specific changes we're trying to achieve. And there are very specific things we are listing for in the blend.

Google or youtube stacking reverbs, layering reverbs, combining reverbs, or reverb tutorial.
 
some say that each instrument goes in their own sonic space to create separation.
Try different things and choose what sound better to you.
One technique is panning left and right and add reverb to the opposite side (instrument on the right, reverb on the left and so one)
 
You can actually use 2 separate reverbs to help separate the two sounds. A short ER verb with a lot of diffusion can be just the thing to get a track to sit in the mix where you want it, you may have to do a bit of compression, some fader level automation, and eq’n to keep it under control. Ideally though you should try to get the tracks to sit in the mix together before adding ambiance. Going back to the EQ and do a bit more work there first will give the best results. As stated above, I do most of my EQ moves in mono. I also continue to check my mix as I go along, in mono. There is no right or wrong absolute answer here, use whatever tools you need, to give you the results you are after.
 
The Basic Reverb Mixing Techniques
Your Kick Drum and Bass Guitar should be 100% dry.
Use more reverb on the toms and cymbals than the snare.
Use enough to push guitars and keyboard behind the vocals and near the snare in depth.
Ways To Use Reverb Like A Pro
Be Selective. Amateurs throw reverb on everything. ...
Use Pre-Delay. Imagine adding reverb to a lead vocal. ...
Consider Density. Density is how closely packed the reflections in a reverb are. ...
Time The Tail. Reverbs that ring out too long will rob your mixes of clarity. ...
Favor Short Reverbs. ...
Shape The Return. ...
Use Less. ...
Go For Mono.
The ultimate guide to effects: reverb. Reverberation (or 'reverb') effects are omnipresent, both in the real world and in music production. Judicious use of reverb can make the difference between a professional recording and something that sounds like it was recorded in a bedroom, adding depth and fullness to the sound
Reverb is the most important effect you have access to. ... Reverberation, or reverb, is a series of acoustic reflections that occur within a space when sound is created. The timing, frequency, and volume of the reflections will vary depending on the size, shape, and contents of the space.

While I agree with some of the comments but not all:

Your Kick Drum and Bass Guitar should be 100% dry. While generully not always, reveb on bass can be an interesting effect, reverb on kick can make it sound big for example in reggae.

Use more reverb on the toms and cymbals than the snare. I very rarely use reverb on cymbals unless the room was very dry. However depends on the song.

Favor Short Reverbs. Again depends on the song.

Go For Mono. I never go mono on reverb I love the stereo spread, delays I sometimes have mono.

I am just pointing out that in the recording world there are no rules, sometimes a wrong thing can sound great, thats how the engineers in the past came up with a lot of great ideas, by experimenting.

Alan
 
While I agree with some of the comments but not all:

Your Kick Drum and Bass Guitar should be 100% dry. While generully not always, reveb on bass can be an interesting effect, reverb on kick can make it sound big for example in reggae.

Use more reverb on the toms and cymbals than the snare. I very rarely use reverb on cymbals unless the room was very dry. However depends on the song.

Favor Short Reverbs. Again depends on the song.

Go For Mono. I never go mono on reverb I love the stereo spread, delays I sometimes have mono.

I am just pointing out that in the recording world there are no rules, sometimes a wrong thing can sound great, thats how the engineers in the past came up with a lot of great ideas, by experimenting.

Alan

I agree, there has been quite a few hit songs, with reverb on bass and kick drum.
Reverb and delay on bass is becoming somewhat popular with some bassist. Using verbs and delay pedals as they record.
 
yeh as keith mention always some time switch to mono to hear for phasing issues.

Also i keep instruments and vocal on different reverb send, and usually the drums reverb is very short almost always at me
 
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