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Thread: Mixing Question: Problems getting healthy dynamics range, re: vocals

  1. #101
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    Have the tracks in a project already. I'll spend some time myself and see what happens.
    PC Win7-64-24G i7-4790k/Cubase 9 Pro 64-bit/2-Steinberg UR824's/ADAM A7x/Event TR8/SS Trigger Plat Deluxe/Melodyne 4 Studio/Other things that don't mean anything if a client shows up not knowing what it wants.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmys69 View Post
    Have the tracks in a project already. I'll spend some time myself and see what happens.
    Awesome. Thanks in advance.

    TB

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tesgin View Post
    ...it's about learning how you guys mix, what you'd do differently, how you build your chains, what plugins you use and why, how you "think" and how you approach a project like this.
    Well, TBH...there was a lot of work needed with your original tracks before it would make sense to even start talking about plugin chains and all that, and do any actual mixing.
    IOW...I simply wouldn't want to mix those tracks as they were...and rerecording new tracks or doing more involved editing of all your tracks to get them to the mixing stage, was not my plan. I just have too much other stuff going on.
    I was mostly going to just fix your vocal track so it would not upset the dynamic range of your mix...and then let you get on with it.

    I understand why jkuehlin re-recorded parts, and redid the drums, and tossed out things that weren't working...it made it quicker and easier to get to the mixing and the plugin chains and all that....and since he also tweaked your vocals, then I have nothing to add to this since I don't use Reaper or have the same plugins as you two guys.

    I think if you want to learn how other people do things and compare mixes and all that...go hang out in the MP3 Clinic forum, or get involved in the Mix This! forum here on HR.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tesgin View Post
    Jonathan,

    Just listened to your mix. I absolutely love what you did especially on the drums and bass. They sparkle. Your mix on the bass is sweet. The nuances of the strings on the frets even come thru. My mix didn't get any of that. The drums are quite powerful. The kick has more umph, the snare more presence and snap. You also softened the harshness of the ride and omitted it altogether in parts (e.g., verses). I'm eager to see your project files to understand how you did that. Any comments here on that? That foundation makes a huge difference to my ears.

    I'm curious about the guitar parts that were unsalvageable. I'll PM you to try to figure that out. I downloaded it from the links at post 52 and opened it in REAPER and all worked. Also, they would be in the other link that has the tracks (e.g., the Lead Guitar).

    TB
    I did a lot of fiddling with the drums. I layered several snares and had to play with the internal controls to blend them, I also had to spend some time fiddling with the envelope and ASDR filters. Its a bit much to try and describe, would probably make more sense seeing the session. One thing I do to keep the drums snappy and powerful is never use reverbs on the kick, snare, or toms. Used this trick on all of the tracks on the website. EQ'd, compressed, and heavily saturated but always 100% dry. Similar to mixing recorded drums, I rely pretty heavily on room mics for width and image. All the verb that appears to be coming from the snare are layers of verb and more verb on the room mics only.

    For me, the trick with the bass is to make obnoxious boosts. 12 to 18 db at times in the 700 range. Then mash it up with compression. I had to run 2 EQ's back to back because I couldn't get enough 700 hz out of one EQ with the boost wide open. Then I doubled the bass four times and applied heavy multi-band distortion to the parallel tracks with hi-pass filters engaged. Note that this only works because the only other thing happening in this mix is choppy guitars, vocals, and drums. So there's a lot of space to really ramp up the bass. I would have used the Vitamin if I'd realized that it wasn't cutting through on a laptop. The Vitamin is a good way to add harmonics that enhance the bass on a laptop and iPhone but without the added frequencies interfering with your mix on bigger systems.

    The 1176 on the overheads is solely responsible for softening the harshness of the cymbals. I didn't even have to EQ them. The 1176 also draws out the tails of the sustain in the cymbals by acting sort of like a dynamics expander.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by miroslav View Post
    IOW...I simply wouldn't want to mix those tracks as they were...
    Yeah... that wasn't gonna happen lol.
    I was mostly going to just fix your vocal track so it would not upset the dynamic range of your mix...and then let you get on with it.
    That's what I thought too... surprise surprise lol.

    I understand why jkuehlin re-recorded parts, and redid the drums,
    I copy pasted the bass line into the verses, and tweaked the drum settings. I used his midi track.

    and tossed out things that weren't working...
    The delete button went a long way.

    I have nothing to add to this since I don't use Reaper or have the same plugins as you two guys.
    Sure you do... go ahead and give it a shot
    [quote]

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    Quote Originally Posted by miroslav View Post
    WOW...I'M AMAZED!!!!!!!!!!
    NO OTHER DAW CAN DO THAT!!!!!!!!!



    You still have to decide on one or the other rate...or does Reaper read your mind and make the decision for you.
    Samplitude does. Asks if you want to convert to project rate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coquet-Shack View Post
    Samplitude does. Asks if you want to convert to project rate.
    I guess you also missed the sarcasm in my post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by miroslav View Post
    I think if you want to learn how other people do things and compare mixes and all that...go hang out in the MP3 Clinic forum, or get involved in the Mix This! forum here on HR.
    Yes, there are so many online resources to learn about recording, mixing, mastering, sampling, arranging...it's amazing. Ever heard of YouTube? Haha. And if you've got the cash, you can pay for all sorts of master classes online at various levels of pricing and experience...pretty sure Masterclass.com has a six-hour course on electronic music production from Deadmau5 for like $90. Just one example. And that's $15 a freakin' hour. That's what Amazon pays their employees, and you can pay that much for a class from a guy like Deadmau5. It's crazy.

    That being said, I am not sure if anyone suggested this trick or not, but most mix engineers I know from many different levels in the industry, guys like Mike McCarthy (Spoon, Heartless Bastards, Leann Womack) and Johnny K (Disturbed, Finger Eleven, Megadeth, Plain White T's) and Manny Sanchez (Fallout Boy, Psy) all use at least two, if not three compressors on most vocals, especially lead vocals and lead harmonies. That would REALLY make it a lot easier to even out the final mix levels on your original track. They typically set the first compressor to a hard and fast setting to catch all the plosive sounds that peak out the meters, like 10:1 ratio with fast attack/release settings but only grabbing maybe 3-5 db of the signal...then the second one is set to smooth things out a bit, like 3:1, medium attack, slightly slower than medium release, and it should be consistently grabbing 7-10db. I prefer a Distressor on most male rock vocals. (This trick is also assuming the vocals were tracked through a compressor and touched just a bit by it on the way in. If not, then the first compressor assumes that function and the second one becomes the first one as described above and so forth.)

    For the record, I wouldn't worry about the LRA or whatever that is; the difference between the quietest and loudest parts are almost irrelevant these days, unless you plan on going to terrestrial radio with it (ever heard "Today" by the Smashing Pumpkins on FM radio? It's hilarious how much louder the VERY quiet guitar intro becomes next to the HUGE entry of the full band as it is on the recording...not sure why Virgin didn't send out a single version mastered specifically for radio...they did that for my band when I was signed to them about ten years back). I would mainly consider the average and the peaks and try to smooth out the difference between the two a bit. But only a bit. Personally, I'm not a fan of how a lot of modern albums are mastered, as if having even a little *true* dynamic range would cause cancer or something. I think it's the mistaken human perception that louder is better. Balls, I say!

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