Mixing into a Mastering Limiter ???

[kylen]

Who puts a mastering limiter (or anything else) across their master buss while mixing? Maybe not the entire time but to check out the mix to get an idea how it will sound when the mastering engineer pushes up the loudness a bit.

What kind and how hard do you push ? Depending on the type of mastering limiter and how hard you push it can change the balance of quite a few things obviously...

For example, if I had to guess I say that somebody like fenix might put an L2 across his master buss at some point during mixdown to check things out.

What limiters are you guys using for this ? And if you're not - jump in too - maybe you'll say something like - I can make my mixes as hot or as dynamic as I want without checking them thru a mastering limiter...maybe you're running stems thru some limiters while you mix then...

Just curious

 

[timothyallan]

I will sometimes throw the good ol L2 on the stereo outs just to see what it sounds like, but usually I try and get everything as loud and nicely sitting together without doing that. I like the output to be as 'clean' as possible during my mixing

-Tim

 

[mixsit]

Who puts a mastering limiter (or anything else) across their master buss while mixing? Maybe not the entire time but to check out the mix to get an idea how it will sound when the mastering engineer pushes up the loudness a bit.

Definitely here in my very low-key enterprise. Either as a keeper on the mix, and/or as a look-see how and where it might fair in those conditions ('mastering' vs just the mix compressions).

What kind..

Hardware L2 (for the obvious), Timeworks for the 'glue', density and/or movement' thing, and some UltraFunk multiband patches that do various levels of a brightening, fast-release exciter effect. (A very seductive toy..

..and how hard do you push? Depending on the type of mastering limiter and how hard you push it can change the balance of quite a few things obviously...

I'm fairly keen on how much the wet/dry, back-forward relationships can change -particularly if your finished mix style happens to land on the less compressed side to begin with -you can be in for some real surprises at crunch' time. I don't see this point getting much traction. Maybe people are compressing enough in the mix that it's not much of a deal. (A good example -look how much more 'oldies' get remixed (literally!) on radio processing vs newer already flat music.) Possibly one of the few up sides to squashed to death mixes?? No one can screw with it.
I go kicking and screaming as a last resort into the high compression/limiting/loud style, so I might be a bit more sensitive to this.
Wayne here.

Exactly no qualifications claimed.

 

[fenix]

if I have the cpu resources, I'll put the L2 on the master buss, but usually it's an L1.

Most of the stuff I record has driving guitars so I'll drive the L1 around 4db to check the mix. The reason I do this is because when you master something, depending on how everything sits in the mix and how compressed the drums are, the guitars tend to get brought way up in the mix in the mastering phase.

It can save a lot of hassle when you get to the mastering phase and realize you need to fix something that could have been fixed by listening to the mix with a little L2/L1 on the master buss.

 

[ryanlikestorock]

When I mix, I try and get my peak signals somewhere around -3db with most of the mix sitting around -6db or so. There's really no need to put a hard limiter on this process because you're only doing to lose something. A hard limiter shouldn't be contributing to the sound if you're using it correctly.

 

[kylen]

OK - thanks guys. Looks like some people check the mix with an L2 Waves type mastering limiter (I use Voxengo Elephant2) but also try to get the loudness adjusted at mixdown time giving them more control over the final results. Less for the mastering engineer to adjust loudness wise it seems.

I've also talked to folks that go for a more dynamic mix and count on the mastering engineer adjusting the loudness to taste without worrying about it at all so maybe they do or don't check the mix by putting a mastering limiter (or compressor) on the master buss.

Then you hear folks say that I delivered the perfect mix to the mastering engineer and they didn't have to touch it at all (loudness or balance wise).

Personally when I finish a mix I like being able to play it for folks so I'll finalize it and put the loudness where I like it by throwing a mastering limiter across the master buss. But I'll also save a copy of the mix that wasn't finalized.

However with the mastering limiter on the master buss I am finding that the mix needs to be retweaked a bit, same as the L2 users have said I think. Ryanlikestorock doesn't share the view that the mastering limiter will change the balance if it's used properly. That's not what I'm finding so that's why I've asked what equipment other folks use. But the point to get the mix tracks hot themselves is a good one to consider. I'll have to think some more about this...

Thanx guys

 

[mixsit]

...I've also talked to folks that go for a more dynamic mix and count on the mastering engineer adjusting the loudness to taste without worrying about it at all so maybe they do or don't check the mix by putting a mastering limiter (or compressor) on the master buss.

...Ryanlikestorock doesn't share the view that the mastering limiter will change the balance if it's used properly. That's not what I'm finding so that's why I've asked what equipment other folks use...
Thanx guys

Good points all. The thing that seems unavoidable though (depending upon the degree of course) is the loss of some major qualities as it gets pushed past a certain point in loudness. And with the levels expected, it seems to demand a whole new set of skills to add on... how to have no dynamics and not sound like sh*t. (Ok, sh*t's just my opinion. But look how often full time pros' are making comments that in essence say '..I can't stand to listen to the final product more than a few minutes..', '..it makes me want to turn it off..' or some such.
So, to give mastering a dynamic mix and not worry about it? I know I'm not in that league.
Wayne