Mixing and EQing drums in rock or prog/rock

YellowDwarf

YellowDwarf

Dismember
I'm getting ready to mix a new self-recorded album of about 20 songs. I'm a hobbyist like many here.

I'd like to hear how the folks who record/produce rock music EQ their drum tracks - not necessarily the "making each individual drum track" (i.e. snare, kick, overheads etc) sound great, but how to then fit the tracks into the song EQ-wise.

I'm not a very good explainer, so I'll give an example. Maybe you'll know the album or not - Tool's 10,000 Days. I'm not a super-fan of Tool or anything, nor does my music sound like theirs, but I was intrigued at how they mixed the drums. I bet if you had access to the tracks and listened to the post-mixed toms, for example, they'd sound really thin. Yet when you listen to a song, those toms stand out and sound terrific.

Do any of you mix the drums like this, such that they can only be heard in the sonic holes left by the other instruments? If so, how do you go about doing it? If not, how do you mix drums so they fit with guitars and basses and other instruments?

I know this is a rather broad question that invites a whole range of responses and I'm not looking for a "one size fits all" solution ... but we're all sitting at home (hopefully) so there's time!

Thanks,
Timbo
 
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In that case you can just use the samples that fit the mix best. There is no answer to what eq to use as every mix is different.
 
Thanks, maybe I wasn't clear with my long winded question.

Besides making the drum track sound great on its own, do you cut a lot of the frequencies or mix it as it was recorded?

Tim
 
I work with real drums a lot, I record real kits with drummers.

However I do sometimes write drum tracks with samples and I tend to use samples that make the kit sound like it was recorded for the actual song. The good thing about samples is you can change them within the drum program to suit the song during mixing.

However there is nothing wrong with changing the eq if it needs it as it sometimes can add to the creativity of the mix. Remember there are no eq settings, you need to learn what eq does and thins is learned by trying things out.
 
witzendoz said:
I work with real drums a lot, I record real kits with drummers.
Click to expand...

Great, so here is what I was trying to get at: when you are mixing in the real drums say in a busy song with lots going on, do you find you are cutting a lot of frequencies to not cover up the other instruments, or not? I'm not talking about a piano ballad where I'd imagine you could keep the drums mostly "un-cut".

Thanks a ton,
Tim
 
YellowDwarf said:
Great, so here is what I was trying to get at: when you are mixing in the real drums say in a busy song with lots going on, do you find you are cutting a lot of frequencies to not cover up the other instruments, or not? I'm not talking about a piano ballad where I'd imagine you could keep the drums mostly "un-cut".

Thanks a ton,
Tim
Click to expand...

So most rock/metal stuff doesn't have much in the way of sub bass. If that is what you are trying for I would start with cutting the kick with a shelf or 6db filter at about 50hz and a bump around 80hz or better yet use a pultec style eq to get the same effect(lotsa youtube examples, search pultec eq on kick). Then you empty a bit of 80 on the bass guitar tracks to make them gel. If you have a "featured" tom part (not just a simple fill) then I will do a similar thing of cutting below the fundamental, a bit of cut in the boxy region if necessary(~350-600 usually but samples may not need) and if needed a slight boost in the 1- 3k to get the smack to stick out if it isn't already. Adding an aux track for crushing with a compressor or adding some harmonic distortion, one aux for ambience/verb with the LFF set at~500 and the HFF set at ~4-10 k.

Note: Tool drums often have samples added to the live tracks to fatten them up and some more bottom than the average rock track- move the LFF filter down to ~40hz
 
Every project defines these questions by the arrangement of the songs in the style they are set in. Drums have several functions in a multi instrumental arrangement. Your choice of how to present them will be dependent on what their function for the song is.

If the drums are 'leading' the arrangement then you want as much fidelity and forward thrust you can achieve and work the rest of the instruments into the structure provided by the drums. If the drums are keeping the tempo and are arranged around a vocal melody then they should be there but not on top or in front. In that case you would consider what instrument is 'leading' and provide room for that.

I generally build a mix from three elements. Drums, bass, vocals. I pull everything down except these elements and make my stems and then balance so that the song begins and ends with these three things supporting each other. When this is solid and feels like nothing else is needed to get the point of the song across to a listener, then I add all the other elements involved without touching the starting point. Stir until it sounds like it should. Print. Next.
 
WHEN working with 'samples',
often times, the eq'ing and also panning, is already done in the samples.

you select the samples because they already sound the 'best' for what you are after.

if the samples are 'raw', meaning, they are pure captures,
you have the gear and the room impacting the sound.

ultimately,
you have to train your own ears, and practice working with compression and EQ,
to get what you are after.

no matter the source.
 
Best advice I can give is, don't focus on what the solo tracks sound like. It's completely irrelevant. The trick is to weave all the different tracks together, so they sound good together.
 
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