Matching quality + creating cohesion for album

jthom

New member
Hi guys.

Hopefully this is the right thread for this post.

My band recorded three songs (released as singles) with our label using a professional studio, experienced engineers and professional mastering.

We’re no longer a part of the label but have all copyright to the songs. We’d like to record three new songs to put on a mini album alongside the existing three.

My question is in regards to matching the quality of the new songs with the previous ones.

I reckon we could use a new sound engineer and achieve a similar quality but how could we ensure that all six tracks are ‘cohesive’ and sound like they belong on the same album? I guess one option would be to have all six mastered by the same engineer? (we have the unmastered versions of the first three songs).

As an alternative (and a project for me), we could record the new tracks on our own using my home studio. I’m an amateur at best but should be able to achieve a fairly (if slightly less) similar quality of recording with some effort. If we went down this route, how could we ensure that all six tracks sound fairly cohesive?

Any thoughts/opinions/advice would be much appreciated.
 
Couple quick thoughts...

*Part of this will simply be having the same musicians, using the same guitars, amps, drums, etc, so right off the bat you've got a better shot of pulling this off than, say, I would at replicating the same general vibe.

*Part of this will be HOW the insturments and vocals were recorded - if you happen to remember anything about the way the drums were mic'd up, how the guitars were mic'd up, what vocal mic you guys used, whether the bass was tracked direct, through an amp, or with a combination of the two, etc, that can definitely help too.

*I'm guessing if you're asking how you could make the tracks sound as much like the pro tracks, rather than being pretty confident you could at least get part/all of the tracking consistent, I'm going to guess you're not especially experienced at home recording. Recording a full band, and making it sound like a professional recording, is NOT easy, so unless you're already confident of your abilities to pull this off, you'll save yourself a lot of frustration by recording this in a studio.

*A good sound engineer could, given the same band and the same amps/instruments, likely listen to the three songs you've recorded, and adapt his or her approach to get you a fairly similar sound. Probably not 100% the same, and especially if anything was somewhat dependent on the room (say, a drum sound with a prominent room mic or that relied heavily on the overheads to capture the sound of the kit), but they might be able to get you into the same rough ballpark, such that it wouldn't be especially obvious to an untrained ear.

*This is especially true if you have access to the raw multitracks from the session, and you can hire the same engineer to remix the first three tracks along with your next three.

*Mastering is VERY MUCH the process of making an album sound cohesive from track to track, this will help too.

*that said, most of this is going to cost money, so this is going to be dependent on what kind of a budget you're working with.
 
My band recorded three songs (released as singles) with our label using a professional studio, experienced engineers and professional mastering.

We’re no longer a part of the label but have all copyright to the songs. We’d like to record three new songs to put on a mini album alongside the existing three.

Hold up a sec... that doesn't make sense and doesn't add up. How did you end up with all the copyright privileges? Did you purchase it back from the label?

My question is in regards to matching the quality of the new songs with the previous ones.

I reckon we could use a new sound engineer and achieve a similar quality but how could we ensure that all six tracks are ‘cohesive’ and sound like they belong on the same album? I guess one option would be to have all six mastered by the same engineer? (we have the unmastered versions of the first three songs).

As an alternative (and a project for me), we could record the new tracks on our own using my home studio. I’m an amateur at best but should be able to achieve a fairly (if slightly less) similar quality of recording with some effort. If we went down this route, how could we ensure that all six tracks sound fairly cohesive?

Any thoughts/opinions/advice would be much appreciated.

If it was a full blown commercial studio and the quality from a home facility. Don't go into this with expectation of that. Its flat out unrealistic. What you can match is the performance quality, energy, and overall vibe. This is more important than having a blow-for-blow match on the quality of the engineering.

My first piece of advice is to find an experienced producer to work with. You've got to give them a budget you can deliver on, and you've got to follow their lead when it comes to not ending up with 3 songs that sound amazing and 3 songs that sound like shit. Mastering won't do shit for you if the 3 new songs aren't even in the ballpark of the other first 3.

I'm sorry to be this blunt, but amateurs don't match pros. Its that simple. That's where you REALLY need an experienced producer to level the playing field. That is the ONLY solution here that will potentially compensate for the knowledge difference required to make what you're asking work. There is no amount of advice you can get on a forum or no amount of tutorials that you can watch that will enable you to produce a commercial level project on your own in a year or two. The learning curve is just too steep.
 
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As others say, it's going to be hard to match a pro studio, assuming it was really done well, and a lot would depend on the quality of your own studio and the equipment you have available, and, of course, the mix engineer, the last being the first thing you should settle on. I probably wouldn't tackle that yourself unless you're being overly modest in your assessment of your own ability. Someone that really knows what they're doing could probably listen to the originals and look at your setup and tell you, objectively, what the chances are. Might be worth interviewing a few at your home studio and get a feel for who understands (and is realistic about) what they would be capable of delivering.

If it turns out that your "plan A" isn't realistic, and your band is performing out, why not get someone to do a good, multi-track live recording of a show and pick a few good songs off that to mix/master for your EP? Then you'd have something like a half studio + half live promo piece that wouldn't have to be uniform across its entirety, save some of the key qualities and levels, and save you trying to do the impossible.
 
Couple quick thoughts...

*Part of this will simply be having the same musicians, using the same guitars, amps, drums, etc, so right off the bat you've got a better shot of pulling this off than, say, I would at replicating the same general vibe.

*Part of this will be HOW the insturments and vocals were recorded - if you happen to remember anything about the way the drums were mic'd up, how the guitars were mic'd up, what vocal mic you guys used, whether the bass was tracked direct, through an amp, or with a combination of the two, etc, that can definitely help too.

*I'm guessing if you're asking how you could make the tracks sound as much like the pro tracks, rather than being pretty confident you could at least get part/all of the tracking consistent, I'm going to guess you're not especially experienced at home recording. Recording a full band, and making it sound like a professional recording, is NOT easy, so unless you're already confident of your abilities to pull this off, you'll save yourself a lot of frustration by recording this in a studio.

*A good sound engineer could, given the same band and the same amps/instruments, likely listen to the three songs you've recorded, and adapt his or her approach to get you a fairly similar sound. Probably not 100% the same, and especially if anything was somewhat dependent on the room (say, a drum sound with a prominent room mic or that relied heavily on the overheads to capture the sound of the kit), but they might be able to get you into the same rough ballpark, such that it wouldn't be especially obvious to an untrained ear.

*This is especially true if you have access to the raw multitracks from the session, and you can hire the same engineer to remix the first three tracks along with your next three.

*Mastering is VERY MUCH the process of making an album sound cohesive from track to track, this will help too.

*that said, most of this is going to cost money, so this is going to be dependent on what kind of a budget you're working with.

Thanks for replying Drew - much appreciated.

Yeah, we'd be using different equipment and slightly different recording techniques so I see what you mean. I do remember most of the approach so could bear that in mind during the process.

Unfortunately, we don't have access to the mixes although would be an ideal scenario.

Yeah, I guess part of it comes down to budget too. I'm not a newbie in terms of home recording and I have spent time in pro studios but I'm just a hobbyist. I guess I'd see it as a challenge :)

Really useful advice Drew and worth exploring the option of working with another professional sound engineer.
 
Recording in different studio with exact same equips still sound different, in different studios with different equips, never sound barely the same, at least with same quality. IMHO, I start over all the songs.
 
Thanks for replying Drew - much appreciated.

Yeah, we'd be using different equipment and slightly different recording techniques so I see what you mean. I do remember most of the approach so could bear that in mind during the process.

Unfortunately, we don't have access to the mixes although would be an ideal scenario.

Yeah, I guess part of it comes down to budget too. I'm not a newbie in terms of home recording and I have spent time in pro studios but I'm just a hobbyist. I guess I'd see it as a challenge :)

Really useful advice Drew and worth exploring the option of working with another professional sound engineer.

Honestly, Keith Rogers's suggestion might be the best bet here. If it was a decent studio you were tracking in, and if you were working with a really good engineer, and if you DON'T have reasonably good home recording gear, enough channels to track a drum kit in the same manner as the studio did (I'm assuming a lot of spot mics with a stereo overhead for reinforcement, but you never know), and a good room to work in... What you're trying to do is awfully hard. Given that challenge, Keith raises a good point, where maybe your best bet is to not even try, and instead just record a couple live shows (multitrack, if you can), and take the best performances from that.

I hate to say it, as a guy who's spent a LONG time as a home recording hobbyist... But, with the experience I've picked up as a home recording hobbyist, I also feel pretty qualified to say this - making a "professional" sounding recording is HARD, and just because you or I can go out and pick up a Sweetwater catalog and maybe a grand later have an 8 track interface, a couple mics, and a DAW doesn't mean that we can churn out the same quality as a pro studio, any more than I could expect to buy a grand worth of tools from a Craftsman catalog and rebuild a Formula One engine. The guys who do this stuff have spend years of their lives learning how to do it better than almost all of their peers, and while you can certainly, over time, learn how to produce really good results working on your own in a home studio, if you don't have YEARS of experience under your belt and tons of time to dedicate to this project, you're likely to not be satisfied with the results.
 
I'm not trying to come in sideways here, but I get projects in all the time where [these tracks were done at this studio] and [these other tracks were done at this other studio]. Happens all the time. There are layers of things that make a cohesive sound. Heck, there are some rather big-time recordings out there where one *verse* sounds totally different than another.

Cute anecdote -- "The Christmas Song" by the Chipmunks. Listen to the "plane that loops the loops - me I want a hula-hoop" part from the first verse - Then the next (similar lyrics) after the instrumental break. Everything changed (except maybe the vocalist). The mic sounds different, the room is different, the whole overall timbre of the vocal is different (I would argue a far lesser quality, but that's just me)* - I know it's an oddball tune to mention, but it's also a big seller.

Don't get me wrong - If you've got "Black Diamond" (Studios) quality on some tracks and "Frank's Unfinished Basement" on the others, it could theoretically be (1) more challenging than usual for the mastering engineer and (2) sonically - odd (?) to some extent. But if the tunes are solid and the performance is inspired, then go. People aren't whistling and tapping their foot to the cohesiveness.

* I notice that a lot of people can't hear that difference right off the bat but if you play it at pitch (half speed, as the vocal was recorded) it's really obvious.
 
" People aren't whistling and tapping their foot to the cohesiveness. " Hah! We had a great, long running TV show about that John. OGWT.

Yeah, have a go. Now I know JACK S but, start with levels. Standards have slipped badly these days but the BBC at least TRIES to keep levels consistent across the board. First step IMHO, get them monitors calibrated and if they cost less than $3000 the pair, bin 'em and get better.

Dave.
 
I guess one option would be to have all six mastered by the same engineer? (we have the unmastered versions of the first three songs).

If you read about them, a lot of classic albums were recorded over a long period across a number of different studios, but made cohesive with professional mixing and mastering.

If you have the original multi-tracks, that would make it far easier, but a professional master (Massive may not recommend himself because of forum policies, but I certainly do!) ought to be able to make things coherent.
 
If you have a half decent home studio, you might be able to make use of it for certain things. Mixing has a big learning curve, so it might be cheaper, faster and better to hire an experienced mix engineer with a good facility to help you there. Depending on the production, it might also help to hire a studio for tracking certain things. A tracking facility is usually selected for what the room sounds like, especially for drums. For example, if the band can get really tight to the point where they can nail the songs cold, maybe book a session to cut the bed tracks live off the floor. A modest, smallish home studio might serve well for overdubs if necessary. With good attention to detail and a bit of experimentation, plus a few simple things like gobos and moving blankets, it's possible to cut things like guitar amps and vocals just about anywhere.
 
Personally I think "cohesiveness" is not that important. To some degree it's even killing music. To do an album wirhout variety is just plain boring.

Song quality IS important. Good recording, mixing and production quality IS important.

Records that have stood the test of time have no real 'cohesion'.

Look at Queen. I forget the album name, but this one record has the songs "Dragon attack" (a real rocker) and then "Crazy little thing called Love" (could be a 59s Elvis tune)
Wildly different songs which both have a different sound but are both great and immediately identifiable as Queen.

So cohesion ( if I'm defining it the same as you) isn't important.

Besides nowadays people aren't buying whole records. They may purchase one or two to add to their iTunes playlist.

The quality does matter..
 
If you read about them, a lot of classic albums were recorded over a long period across a number of different studios, but made cohesive with professional mixing and mastering.

I was thinking about the original releases (before digital remastering etc) of albums in the 70's and songs from different studios on the same album, you could clearly hear the difference but who cared? It is part of the history.


Alan.
 
I like variation and differences. Today there is such an effort to make everything the same. All over the country there are suburbs that all are the same. You can't tell if you're in California, New England, or Kansas, All over the country there are Starbucks. .all the same. Etc, etc.
Music i like to be a bit original.

My first unpleasant experience was when I bought ZzTop'Tres Hombres on CD. It sounded odd. Something was off.
Then pulled out the original vinyl.
The bastards had added 80s style reverb to everything. In particular the drums. The original was much drier.
I searched to no avail for 'unaltered' versions of the record on CD.
The original was great on it's own. Leave it the hell alone. :D
 
one thing I've learnt is record mix and master the album in as short space of time as possible, I had the problem of changing gear and rooms through one album, made it hard to get the tracks sounding similar without some EQ adjustment in mastering, it was all over the place.
 
I had the problem of changing gear and rooms through one album, made it hard to get the tracks sounding similar without some EQ adjustment in mastering, it was all over the place.

Mind you that is what mastering is all about, making the separate tracks glue together on an album. However apart from playback volume, why do all the tracks have to sound the same? Just food for thought.

Alan.
 
Mind you that is what mastering is all about, making the separate tracks glue together on an album. However apart from playback volume, why do all the tracks have to sound the same? Just food for thought.

Alan.

they didn't really, but it was just noticable, my earlier recordings were not quite as high quality, it really bugged me, it was a classical guitar album so wanted the tracks to sound pretty similar, not identical but similar in terms of tone, it was a good lesson in learning though, will make my next album if I ever make one again more consistent.
 
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