Making a live recording sound more "live"

elbandito

elbandito

potential lunch winner
I work out of a venue, in which we track bands to a 24 channel digital board. Because we close mic everything on stage, I will often set up my H4n out somewhere in/above the crowd to capture some of the room ambience and I'll blend that into my mix. On a recent recording, I did my usual setup and found afterwards that the H4n didn't capture the room well, so I decided not to include it and went ahead and did the mix. I sent the client a couple preview tracks and they replied saying that they liked it but that it sounded "compressed" and "not live enough". I didn't use very much compression at all (this is the project that spawned my recent posts/revelations on fader riding/automation), so I'm assuming that what they meant was that the instruments sounded too close up and that they aren't breathing enough.

I've been playing with the tracks a bit today and trying to give the recording a little more air, using parallel compression on the OH to open them up and capture more stage sound and I added some artificial reverb to the mix but I'm finding that the reverb - to my ears - sounds... well, artificial. It just doesn't sound like the room the tracks were recorded in. Opening up the OH helped but of course, it also makes the OH kind of brash-sounding.

For those of you that have experience tracking and mixing live bands, what techniques have you used in situations like these? When I listen to say, James Brown Live at the Apollo (1968), it sounds like a perfect mix between presence and ambiance. How do they achieve results like this?
 
Having thought about it a little more, in future I think I will back off a little when miking things onstage and allow for some more bleed between mics and maybe hang my 635a above the band just to see if that helps sort of glue the room and the stage together. The ceilings are something like 20ft in the venue and we've got baffles and sound absorption onstage to tame harsh reflections.

But as for this recording, I'm still trying to figure out how to make the best of what I've already got. Any ideas?
 
elbandito said:
For those of you that have experience tracking and mixing live bands, what techniques have you used in situations like these?
Click to expand...

I don't record live bands, but I have advice for you anyway. A great way to get the type of presence you want is by adding reverb using a "stage" type preset. This has a shorter decay time than the usual "plate" and "hall" presets, and it adds a nice sense of the musicians being right there in the room with you. It doesn't have to be too loud. Mixing in the reverb return somewhere between -15 and -10 is usually about right.

--Ethan
 
When possible I like to put a stereo mic out in the room, centered between the main speakers. I record it to separate tracks and slide it to align with the board mix tracks. It sounds like you were using the H4n for that but for some reason it didn't work out.

Stage volume makes performers have to eat the mic, and that boosts from 500Hz-1kHz down. This proximity effect makes singers sound like they're right next to you rather than at a distance. Apply eq to reverse proximity effect and you might put some more space into the mix.
 
Do you still have access to this room? If so play your mix back through the PA and set up a few mics and record the playback ambience.
 
Your client said it sounded "compressed' and not "live enough". Over the years I have found many people dont have a good vocabulary for describing what they like or dont like in a sound recording. Some people are very poor at explaining it. Sometimes it turns out they mean the opposite of what they say.

As a point of comparison, why not simply ask them to play you a live recording which they think doesnt have those faults, and "sounds right"?

Tim
 
You need a convolution reverb my man. That and I'd say try to make your tracks less bright with eq than you would in a studio,
and for a real "live" feel, I'd turn the bass and kick up a shit ton. Don't mud it completely, but just makes sure that bottom end is clear and present and hitting.
 
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