I've been thinking about paying an "online" recording studio to mix one of my songs

[Byron Yang]

.. And I need your guys' input.

There are two studios I'm looking at (there a a few out there) because they stand out to me as far as customer testimonials go, and the quality I've heard on their sites.

Basically, you send them a dry, barebones, rough demo of your song, and they have professional musicians that will finalize, mix and master your song for you over the internet. The only thing you do on your part is record your vocals and send it to them via email, then they'll do the rest. It sounds kinda neat. It's super pricey, though. For one song it's $600-$700. But considering that you are also paying for labor and professional musicians to mix your song in another state, I think it's pretty justified. They work close with you, so I'm sure that if you can communicate your vision clearly to them, they would have no problem mixing you a radio ready song. I don't have all the expensive gear that I need to produce a professional radio ready song. The best I can do with the gear I have at home is a polished EP quality song.

Have any of you on here done this before? Are you thinking about doing it? Why would you do it, or why wouldn't you do it? Any feedback, or input is appreciated. Thanks guys, and rock on.

Here are the sites:

http://www.DrumsForYou.com
http://www.StudioPros.com

-Byron

 

[RAMI]

I don't understand. Are you playing the instruments, or are they going to play them and you just record the vocals???

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I don't understand. Are you playing the instruments, or are they going to play them and you just record the vocals???

Yeah, this is an idea I have been playing around with offering myself. It's like a studio with it's own houseband (picture a 21st century version of Stax Records with Steve Cropper, Duck Dunn and the rest as the house band). For the songwriter/vocalist without a "real" band who does not want to just sell their song to someone else to perform (a la Tin Pan Alley), but prefers to keep the rights themselves and just create a quality production using studio cats for hire.

Personally I like the idea - assuming there is real talent on both sides of the studio glass. Llike I say, this is an idea I've been bouncing around in my head recently using a few local session cats and quality vocalists myself with me me riding the fader desk, and then gathering up songwriters as the clients who need someone to execute their vision. The difficult part is in the production vision; there's only so much the client can convey over the phone as far as how they want the production to sound. Doing it online does mean trusting the house producer to execute your vision. If you have only a general vision, that's OK, but if you have specific arrangement/production ideas, you're probably better off going local so you can be there in the CR calling the production shots.

I'm not so sure about the "provide your own vocals" part of it, though. If someone wants to sing their own song, fine; I'll bring them in the studio and pray that they can actually sing (). But it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me to finely craft the instruments just to back a vocal that the client is making by singing into a $99 microphone connected to a $50 preamp in an untreated bedroom. That would be like making a cheese burger by putting only the freshest finest ingredients on a home-baked bun with a burger made out of dog food. Either record your own vocals with the same quality and care as the rest of the tracks, or use a house vocalist to do it for you.

G.

 

[Seafroggys]

Actually that's a great idea. Being a drummer/songwriter, its kinda hard to realize your creations (the best I can do is drums + midi, which isn't exciting).

 

[Byron Yang]

I don't understand. Are you playing the instruments, or are they going to play them and you just record the vocals???

SouthSIDE Glen pretty much explained it. But yeah, they have a team over at their studio that will play all the instrument parts for you. Definitely check out their site. They have a before and after song that you can listen to. Before = the rough cut that you send them, and After = the finished song that the studio mixes. So you don't play any of the instruments.

But it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me to finely craft the instruments just to back a vocal that the client is making by singing into a $99 microphone connected to a $50 preamp in an untreated bedroom.

Yeah, I know. But I listened to their clients, and I was pretty impressed at the process and finished results. One client from the studio pro site landed one of his songs the the tv show, Scrubs.

 

[Massive Master]

It's super pricey, though. For one song, it's $600-$700.

$6-700 for one song is less than what you'd normally pay "pro rate" for a single instrument on one song in many cases. That said, I can assume this isn't AFM stuff or professional session players.

I'd want to hear references... Lots of references.

 

[Byron Yang]

(the best I can do is drums + midi, which isn't exciting).

LOL

I happen to like that midi sound.

 

[Byron Yang]

$6-700 for one song is less than what you'd normally pay "pro rate" for a single instrument on one song in many cases. That said, I can assume this isn't AFM stuff or professional session players.

I'd want to hear references... Lots of references.

Yeah, man. I totally agree. You could get some awesome gear for that price. Like I said, check out their sites and clients. Let me know what you think. I'm not too experienced in dealing with recording studios, so I wouldn't know how to quote for a song.

 

[doulos24]

I thought about doing something similar as well to sweeten long distance singer songwriter types. I.e guitar vocal mixes to add backing key parts drums percussions lead work etc. I've done it a few times with a few pro studios but my lil place isnt to shabby, so they blended pretty well, but they were hiring me as producer so I had more freedom then say mix my song my way kind of thing.

 

[Chili]

Sounds like you're looking at demo studios. They're pretty common in Nashville. I know the owner of this one from another forum:

http://www.nashvilledemostudio.com/

They do great work. Session musicians and top notch singers. They're geared towards songwriters who want a quality demo to pitch to labels and performing artists.

Ya gotta be careful with who you go with because there are some out there who don't do a good job and charge a lot. There are some who will also say they will pitch your song for you after they make a demo, if you pay them more money. Avoid any studio who asks for upfront money to pitch your song.

 

[Byron Yang]

Sounds like you're looking at demo studios. They're pretty common in Nashville. I know the owner of this one from another forum:

http://www.nashvilledemostudio.com/

They do great work. Session musicians and top notch singers. They're geared towards songwriters who want a quality demo to pitch to labels and performing artists.

Ya gotta be careful with who you go with because there are some out there who don't do a good job and charge a lot. There are some who will also say they will pitch your song for you after they make a demo, if you pay them more money. Avoid any studio who asks for upfront money to pitch your song.

Thanks, Chili. I'll check them out.

 

[Seafroggys]

Hmmm that might be an option I can get into...since most hobbyists either can't play or can't record drums.....thinking here.

 

[Monkey Allen]

I liked the before version on the main page...the 'pro' version sounded like a mashed wall of sound...but not a good wall of sound, more like a wall you hate, like the Berlin wall or something...the kind of wall you want to bash

 

[Chili]

Hmmm that might be an option I can get into...since most hobbyists either can't play or can't record drums.....thinking here.

There are a lot of "Lyricists" looking for musicians who will put music to their words.

http://www.songwriter101.com/forum/

You can offer your services, but be sure not to spam. They don't like it as much as we don't here. Also be sure to make the distinction between offering a service and collaboration. In a collaboration, you get no upfront money, but share in the copyright (and any royalties). Offering a service, you are paid an upfront fee and then after delivery, you have no ties to the product. A contract or written agreement is the best way to handle the details.

I've thought about doing this, and still might. I'm not at that point yet.

peace.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

There are a lot of "Lyricists" looking for musicians who will put music to their words.

I can't speak for everywhere, but around my parts that works both ways; there are a lot of very talented musicians and vocalists that just aren't the world's best songwriters and really just need some quality material to work with. They tend to just float around the cover band and pickup studio work circuit while they are waiting for the next band with a real songwriter to come along and pick them up, which doesn't happen as often as it would in a perfect world. When it does happen, all too often that band dissolves after the first album because they are lacking the third ingredient; producer/management skills. Continued after next quote...

Also be sure to make the distinction between offering a service and collaboration. In a collaboration, you get no upfront money, but share in the copyright (and any royalties). Offering a service, you are paid an upfront fee and then after delivery, you have no ties to the product. A contract or written agreement is the best way to handle the details.

Definitely work from a common sense and readable contract. I like the fact that StudioPros has their terms of service spelled out pretty well on their website, and they seem to make no bones about the fact that all they are doing is providing the service for an up-front price and you keep all rights and royalties for yourself. I assume they will also offer those same terms in a signable contract.

There is a third model besides this demo studio-style service and a collaboration project, and that would be something similar to an indie label. Terms for each participant can vary by contract, whether it involves paying a fee, sharing in royalties, or both. It can be tough for a newb to get a respectable contract from many labels - the stories are legion about both songwriters and performers getting shafted by the producer and not making a dime - but there is a new version of the old indie breed coming along these days that isn't out to screw everybody involved. At the same time, there's rarely any guarantee of success or major profit, but such guarantees would be disingenuous anyway.

G.

 

[Seafroggys]

There are a lot of "Lyricists" looking for musicians who will put music to their words.

http://www.songwriter101.com/forum/

You can offer your services, but be sure not to spam. They don't like it as much as we don't here. Also be sure to make the distinction between offering a service and collaboration. In a collaboration, you get no upfront money, but share in the copyright (and any royalties). Offering a service, you are paid an upfront fee and then after delivery, you have no ties to the product. A contract or written agreement is the best way to handle the details.

I've thought about doing this, and still might. I'm not at that point yet.

peace.

Well yeah, I am making an album right now and I have been hiring musicians, both royalty based and also up front based, so I know how that goes.

I'd probably do it up front based, at least for now. I just don't see the hipster songwriter types to be very....business canny

 

[gecko zzed]

There is a third model besides this demo studio-style service and a collaboration project, and that would be something similar to an indie label. Terms for each participant can vary by contract, whether it involves paying a fee, sharing in royalties, or both. It can be tough for a newb to get a respectable contract from many labels - the stories are legion about both songwriters and performers getting shafted by the producer and not making a dime - but there is a new version of the old indie breed coming along these days that isn't out to screw everybody involved. At the same time, there's rarely any guarantee of success or major profit, but such guarantees would be disingenuous anyway.

This sounds very similar to a collaborative project I'm working on at the moment. See http://www.3pin.com.au

In this project, another recording/mixing acquaintance and I have formed a partnership to produce a CD of original (predominantly acoustic) material, sung and performed by local musicians. We ask people to submit material, then we develop* the arrangements and recruit the musicians to play.

* This is the benevolent dictatorship part of the project, because one of its aims is for us to exercise our creative abilities as arrangers, and to produce the material in a way that the composer may not have expected. A condition of being part of the project is that the composer has no say in how their song will sound, which is daunting for some, and unacceptable for others. But a surprising number are willing to see what we can do to their stuff.

All participants get a share in any profits that we may make, and sign an agreement to that effect.

So far we are still in the scavenging phase . . . digging up material . . . and we have maybe half-a-dozen tracks nearing completion . . . so there is still a long way to go!

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

This sounds very similar to a collaborative project I'm working on at the moment. See http://www.3pin.com.au

In this project, another recording/mixing acquaintance and I have formed a partnership to produce a CD of original (predominantly acoustic) material, sung and performed by local musicians. We ask people to submit material, then we develop* the arrangements and recruit the musicians to play.

* This is the benevolent dictatorship part of the project, because one of its aims is for us to exercise our creative abilities as arrangers, and to produce the material in a way that the composer may not have expected. A condition of being part of the project is that the composer has no say in how their song will sound, which is daunting for some, and unacceptable for others. But a surprising number are willing to see what we can do to their stuff.

All participants get a share in any profits that we may make, and sign an agreement to that effect.

So far we are still in the scavenging phase . . . digging up material . . . and we have maybe half-a-dozen tracks nearing completion . . . so there is still a long way to go!

This sounds very much like the kind of project I've been considering...great minds think alike!

I've only gotten as far as researching and probing as to just what kind of payment model to try out. I find it interesting that you've been having success so far on the Eudaemonic Pie model (everybody gambles on their slice of any profits.) I like that model myself, but I'm not sure yet that it'll fly around here. I'm still kind of putting out feelers and just kinda testing the waters.

G.

 

[gecko zzed]

I find it interesting that you've been having success so far on the Eudaemonic Pie model (everybody gambles on their slice of any profits.)

Phil and I discussed at length various funding models, before settling on the Eudaemonic Pie (though I didn't know it was called that) model. It seemed to be the best option to minimise the risks of the partnership, while providing at least some incentive to participants.

The reality is that Tasmania's music industry plays an almost negligible part in its economy, and only a handful of people make money from their music. Neither Phil nor I have the capital to outlay on paying session musician rates, specially when the commercial prospects of the results are slim. We would carry all the risk with little chance of recouping the investment.

Nevertheless, the Tasmanian situation perversely has helped us . . . because there are so few opportunities for musicians generally, this gives them at least a chance of either getting known or earning something. They are not losing anything by participating (e.g. missing out on more lucrative assignments . . . those assignments are just not there).

Interestingly (and perhaps we are drifting from the topic, but I'll keep going anyway), we have unearthed some real pockets of talent. News of this project is spread mostly by word of mouth. We have been given material from people who play fairly regularly and are reasonably well known, but through this we've also discovered great writers and great singers who play to no-one except themselves in their lounge rooms. These people, in particular, are delighted to have a chance where absolutely none existed for them before, and to be able to hear their music performed on something other than guitar*.

* Because Phil and I are Supreme Commanders of the musical directions of this project, and because we've conceived this project (in part) to exercise our creative recording abilities, we are not simply reproducing what people give us. One technique we use is to get a recording of the person and their guitar as they usually sing it. We keep the vocal, chuck away the guitar, then reassemble a totally new arrangement underneath the vocal.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Phil and I discussed at length various funding models, before settling on the Eudaemonic Pie (though I didn't know it was called that) model. It seemed to be the best option to minimise the risks of the partnership, while providing at least some incentive to participants.

Well, I don't think you'll find "Eudaemonic Pie" in the business textbooks as an official phrase. I stole it from a great book by that name, about a team of early Silicon Valley geeks that got together and collaborated on a project to imbed the equivalent of an original Apple computer in their shoes programmed with a method of beating the roulette wheels in Vegas. Now any time I think about a collaborative project in which the collaborators are basically participating with the only reward being their "slice of the pie", I think of that book and that phrase. As much as I like it, I'm not sure that spirit will work as well here in Chicago, at least not with the cream of the talent, though I'm still feeling it out.

I'd like to see how your project plays out, Mike. It sounds very interesting on many levels, not the least of which would be the music itself. Keep us updated!

G.

WE NOW RETURN TO THIS THREAD'S REGULARLY SCHEDULED TOPIC