Female/Male vocal - perceived level

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davecg321

New member
I recently recorded a song that feature myself and a female member of our band. The song is a simple affair of acoustic guitar/2 vocals, electric guitar.

I tracked both vocals in the same room using the same room, mic, mic placement, gain staging average -17.

When I listened back to both the tracks (both set at unity) my friend Vicky's sounds more full and louder even though the average levels are the same! Why is the perceived volume louder even though the meters say otherwise? She is undoubtedly the better vocalist, she can actually sing (better technique/range/breathing), whereas I'm more of a Dylan-esque type vocalist. I would of thought that it would of been the other way round..? my vocal sounds thinner yet more raspy. Hers are rich, husky, breathy and overall more rounder. Should I go in with heavy e.q on my vocals or just accept that the two are very different and work with the mix/dynamics instead?:)

Tah
 
davecg321 said:
I recently recorded a song that feature myself and a female member of our band. The song is a simple affair of acoustic guitar/2 vocals, electric guitar.

I tracked both vocals in the same room using the same room, mic, mic placement, gain staging average -17.

When I listened back to both the tracks (both set at unity) my friend Vicky's sounds more full and louder even though the average levels are the same! Why is the perceived volume louder even though the meters say otherwise? She is undoubtedly the better vocalist, she can actually sing (better technique/range/breathing), whereas I'm more of a Dylan-esque type vocalist. I would of thought that it would of been the other way round..? my vocal sounds thinner yet more raspy. Hers are rich, husky, breathy and overall more rounder. Should I go in with heavy e.q on my vocals or just accept that the two are very different and work with the mix/dynamics instead?:)

Tah
Click to expand...

You kind of answered your own question...

The ability of a singer to project their voice is kind of a genetic thing. It just works better for some on a particular mic. It happens....

Either eq the tracks that you sing differently or maybe try another mic on your tracks. Don't forget your voice will always sound different recorded than it does to you in your head. Possible you are over analyzing...

Cheers!
 
It could be how you're metering the vocals.
IOW, her voice may have more distinct transients and peak energy, making it sound louder with more punch...while your voice maybe have more even/averaged peak energy.
Also...timbre is another factor. Some voices just have that big, full character, while others are more thinner/narrower sounding.

Next time go for the balance between the two voices that *sounds* good to you...and ignore the metering, other than to make sure you have healthy signals.
 
A good singer knows how to control dynamics. Go with what works for the mix. As others have said, the heck with the meters.
 
I'd be willing to bet that your voice is less symmetrical than hers. That means one side of your waveform peaks higher than the other. That side is as loud as hers, but the actual peak-to-peak level is lower. Put an all-pass filter (phase rotator) or two somewhere in the middle of your fundamentals. Heck, stick it on hers too. Then match the levels.
 
What is a 'phase rotator'? That is the first time I have heard that term in 30 years of recording.
You kind of scaring me. lol
 
ashcat_lt said:
I'd be willing to bet that your voice is less symmetrical than hers. That means one side of your waveform peaks higher than the other. That side is as loud as hers, but the actual peak-to-peak level is lower. Put an all-pass filter (phase rotator) or two somewhere in the middle of your fundamentals. Heck, stick it on hers too. Then match the levels.
Click to expand...

What? Dood, you are starting to sound really high....
 
jimmys69 said:
What is a 'phase rotator'? That is the first time I have heard that term in 30 years of recording.
You kind of scaring me. lol
Click to expand...
Did you bother to google it? Phase rotation has been an important part of processing for radio broadcasting for just about ever and actually an important part of getting that larger than life broadcaster voice sound.

Human voices - especially male voices - are often pretty severely asymmetrical. One side almost always peaks higher than the other. This wastes headroom and often causes things like compressors to work harder than they have to because one side of the waveform hits the threshold before the other.

A phase rotator is (as I said) an allpass filter or chain thereof that changes the phase of each individual frequency - all the different harmonics - in the source by a different amount. This helps to redistribute the energy of the waveform and usually makes it a heck of a lot more symmetrical overall. The audible effect is very subtle, but it's almost like free transparent compression, and it definitely helps any compression, limiting, or saturation you put on afterwards work better and more consistently.

I know I've talked about it around here. I use at least one allpass filter on every vocal I mix just because it doesn't hurt and it almost always helps. Reaper has it as an option for a filter type in ReaEQ so it's easy for me. You can use one of those IBP type things in a pinch, too.

Seriously. It's a real thing.
 
That particular mic might like the female voice. Some have a natural bass roll off with a presence peak or not.
Try a few different mics for the male voice.

Gary
 
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