Cymbal tamers

Gtoboy

Gtoboy

Well-known member
I was mixing a track sunday nite and had started with setting levels as usual and as I was doing so I am hearing the crash cymbals just ringing on forever as they do if not grabbed. So I know I'm going to end up doing volume automation and some gating to get these cymbals to play nice since this isn't a heavy metal track where the constant whoosh is part of the arrangement, and I became curious to hear how others are damping/reducing cymbal crashes in their mixes. Plus maybe some newbies could be looking for tips so bring on your procedure!
 
Do you use just a pair of OH mics...are do you additionally mic the cymbals?

IMO...a lot depends on the OH mic positions and also how the cymbals are angled, which is usually a per-drummer thing...but I try to not have the edges of the cymbals in a line-drive to the mics, most of their sound comes off of them.

I also use thin cymbals and "dark" models in the studio, since I don't have 30' high ceilings and a massive room to put the drums in....the ceiling/wall boundaries are close...so the thinner cymbals tend to fade quicker quieter. I went through an endless cymbal swap for several months a bunch of years back when I was assembling the studio kit, and I think all total, I must purchased about 20-25 cymbals, to end up with about 6 that I liked.
I have some Paper Thin, Thin and Dark and Custom Dark...As and Ks. Not saying you can't use big Rock live gig cymbals ...but they do tend to be louder and withy longer decay.
Of course, there other variables too, so you have to experiment with the cymbals, the mic placement, how hard you hit them, and any processing you apply before/after.

I also keep a bunch of moon gels and other "dampers" ...even something as basic as gaffers tape or self-sticking foam or rubber weather-stripping, and just rip off a small piece and keep trying out different spots on the cymbal until you get the desired effect. Sometimes it takes 2-3 small pieces...etc.

Real anecdote from way back, though I don't remember who actually did this...but I've heard of someone using an aerosol spray can (something safe, of course) to simulate cymbal "whoosh" with a controlled level and duration. :p
 
20180624_212530.jpg
I use both moon gel and gaffa tape to change the tone. I've also angled the cymbals so they die faster. Right now I'm just using a 17" Paiste Fast Crash and a 20" Custom Dark Crash Ride (Zildjian).I have a 16" K but I rarely use it as the tone, though also somewhat dark, doesn't really fit well with the others. Neither one is very bright, if I need brighter I have to borrow right now or use a sample cuz I'm super picky about cymbal tone and haven't found a bright 16" I want to buy thus far. I never really had much issue with cymbals recording to tape and honestly I have fooled with the positioning , etc enough that I'm actually happy with what is being tracked, so I don't really want to mess with my setup. I was more just curious to other mixing ideas others might have . The mics are approx. 25" above the cymbals pointed approx. 1/3-1/2 way between the bells and the edges pointed slightly away from the snare to reduce bleed. I have two LDC(well medium DC technically) and an SDC as room mics. The wall behind the drums is angled up to the ceiling so there are no real flutter echo issues or slap to speak of. When I listen to pop tunes from pre sampler decades I can hear the cymbals being gated and volume ridden and that's what I learned to do(after the proper timbre, mic , and pre combination is done of course)
sorry couldn't get the pic to rotate upright it was taken on an old phone so its not great
 
Actually, most of the sound comes off the top and bottom. You don't want the Mic pointing at the edge because the sound changes drastically as the cymbal move on and off axis with the Mic.

If you have spot mics, use those more and turn down the overheads.
Make sure the drummer hits the drums reasonably hard, but goes easy on the cymbals.
Move the mics farther away to get a more balanced sound.

You may have the wrong cymbals for the genre, it may be a dynamics/drummer problem, or it could be that you are trying to control minute details that don't need to be messed with. (Ocd)
 
Was kinda just trying to get others normol OP when mixing cymbals and ended up a total fail. Ah well, my mistake.
 
I did a session with multi Grammy winner Craig Bauer in Nashville a few months ago. We had this problem with the Gretsch kit we used in the live room. Here's how he dealt with it: Once his parallel compression was set on the drum bus I was surprised when he took the time to go into the track and manually clip-gained problematic areas with overhead bleed. He also drew automation each time cymbals hit in the overheads so the rest of the OH track could ride lower in the overall mix. The automation curve naturally helped him control the tail of cymbals. He also drowned out some of the excessive cymbal ring by ramping up isolated snare drum room samples that were re-amped through a stone resonance chamber room. I've never seen someone do that before, but apart from Tom Lord Alge, Craig is hands down the best mix engineer I've ever personally worked with.

Another thing you can try....I use transient designers to control cymbal bleed when gates fuck up the tone. I also blend samples into specific hits with closely matched attack times so that I can park the overhead VCA's in a place where the sample augmentation decay blends into the OH cymbal decay without sounding like two different cymbals.
 
I am not a big fan of gates, however gates that have an adjustable attenuation control, which means the gate does not completely shut can help with the ring by turning it down without killing the drum sound totally. I have used them on tom mics where the tom has a ring when not being played but the mic also has some good drum ambiance or cymbal ambience that I don't want to loose.

Alan.
 
Farview said:
Sorry, I was imagining what you were saying incorrectly. I really shouldn't post at 5am
Click to expand...

I wasn't detailed when I said most of the sound comes from the edges...I mean, I can see how it can be misunderstood. :)

What I was getting at was that the sound will push out from the center/bell to the edges, where the top & bottom are in their greatest vibration, and therefore loudest. So yeah, it's the top at bottom that make the sound...not the actual "edge"...but it's at the edge is where they are loudest.

Awhile back a drummer was trying to tell me that, and he worded it as "the sound comes from the edge"...and I had to make one of those scrunched "WTF?" kind of faces for a moment, and I was ready to correct him... but then I realized what he was really saying.
So my bad...I kinda did the same thing here! :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top