Couple of Mixing Q's

C

chamelious

www.thesunexplodes.com
I mix using reaper, which shows me signal peaks on individual tracks, which i always avoid. But i have a "folder" track set up for drums just so i can mute/solo the drums with one click, and this track always clips by anything upto 10. Is this a problem or normal?

I always have a problem with distorted guitars masking toms, are there some general EQ areas i can try cutting on the guitars? Always seems to be my main problem, getting the snare and toms above the guitars. Obviously "turn down the guitars!" but by the time the guitars are low enough in relation to the snare/toms, they're too low in general.

Any advice appreciated, will have stuff to post in MP3 clinic soon.

Thanks
 
I also use a folder for my drum track in REAPER. It never comes anywhere remotely close to clipping. You might simply be mixing too hot. I'd consider turning everything way down. I'm not sure what you mean by "too low in general". What's does that mean? Your mix shouldn't be peaking any higher than -6, and that's being generous. My mixes never peak higher than -10.
 
I meant by the time the guitars are low enough to not compete with the toms, they're too low in relation to everything else.
 
It sounds to me like you're recording and mixing everything too hot to start with. Don't forget that 0dB in a DAW is 0dB (FS) which stands for "full scale" and is the point at which digital clipping starts. Depending on the setup, this equates to anything from +18 to +22 on an analogue scale...and you'd never mix any place near that loud in the old days!

The other thing to remember is that each time you add two tracks together the overall level goes up. If your toms and overheads are each at -10, mixing them together takes you to -7. Add a snare, also at -10 and the three together will be at -4...and so on. I don't use Reaper but I assume a "folder track" is a submix of several tracks put together for convenience. If my guess is right then submixing your drums together is what's taking you into clipping. Easy to solve...just back everything in the mix off a fair way and start bringing them up again.

Bob
 
I meant by the time the guitars are low enough to not compete with the toms, they're too low in relation to everything else.
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:eek:

So turn everything else down. It's as simple as that. If your drum buss is peaking as high as you say it is, you're trying to mix way too hot.
 
This probably comes from my Reaper ignorance; I assumed that a folder track was a logical subgrouping rather than an actual bus.
 
Not sure i get what you mean? If i then turn everything else down, i'll arrive back where i started, only with the overall mix lower in volume.
 
chamelious said:
Not sure i get what you mean? If i then turn everything else down, i'll arrive back where i started, only with the overall mix lower in volume.
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Dude, your original "problem" was the drums were clipping. Solution: Turn them down.

Your next problem was that you couldn't hear the toms under the guitar. Solution: Turn down the guitar.

Your next problem was that, if you turn down the guitar, it's too low compared to everything else. Solution: Turn down everything else.

Result: Your drums aren't clipping any more and your mix isn't too hot.
 
chamelious said:
This probably comes from my Reaper ignorance; I assumed that a folder track was a logical subgrouping rather than an actual bus.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if it's an actual bus or not. I called it a bus without really thinking about it. Either way, if it's clipping, shit is too loud.
 
Well i wasn't sure if it was a problem or not- i'm still not to be honest, if the folder track isnt a bus then is it actually a problem if its clipping? Find it confusing, the drum tracks get bussed together when they get to the master bus, they aren't clipping there...
 
Its no problem to turn the folder track down mind, i just dont see how its going to help with the toms problem. With your list of solutions you suggest turning guitars down, then turn everything else down, aka turn everything down. This makes everything quieter, how does it address the problem?
 
chamelious said:
Its no problem to turn the folder track down mind, i just dont see how its going to help with the toms problem. With your list of solutions you suggest turning guitars down, then turn everything else down, aka turn everything down. This makes everything quieter, how does it address the problem?
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Perhaps what RAMI is getting at is that your actual mix doesn't need to be loud. Mastering will bring the overall volume up.
I could be wrong though. I'm a less than masterful mind reader.
 
Is your "folder" track meaning "group" track ?
cuz in cubase or nuendo, you can create a folder to put tracks to sub-group it. Its like creating a folder in windows to throw files and organize
so, if I got 8 guitar tracks, I can create a folder, and drag those tracks in it, and named the folder.....so when my work window gets crowded, I can just click the folder to fold it into one guitar "folder" tracks.....but this track won't show in your mixer
I think yours is more like a "group track". You select your snare, hats, toms, kick, overheads, all the drum track output to that "Drums Group Track" and from "Drum Group Track" to master bus, right ? and it will shown in the mixer board.
And when you bussed all your individual drums track into that group, the group channel signal is the summed from all those tracks, so when its too hot and clipping, you should pull the fader lower
The other thing is, you should always see your master bus signals. Don't let it peaks more than -3. It's better if you leave a -6~-3db headroom, for mastering. If its peaking more, dont turn your master fader down. Like RAMI and grimtraveller said, you should go back to all your tracks and pull them down.
Making it loud its not in the mixing process, its the mastering process......so, YES! you should pull them down, and turn up ur monitor/headphones volume~
About your guitar covering toms, if the overall volume is in balance but still felt like its drowning, then maybe its the eq's problems. I myself, always put a high pass eq for guitars.....I cut everything from 100Hz bellow, cuz its messing up with bass and low end of the drums.
You can also try to cut a little bit from 250Hz to 500Hz find which spot that is covering the toms, or maybe, you can put some compressor to the toms, to make them pop out more.
Good luck !
 
I would agree, your problem with the guitars and toms sounds like an eq issue. You might also try panning the toms and guitars to opposite sides of the stereo spread and see if that helps. As far as eq, I would try to boost and then sweep the eq on the guitars to find the frequency that makes them as ugly and muddy as possible. That's your problem spot. Once you have found the ugly frequencies, then reduce those ugly frequencies and see if that helps.

Dave
 
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