Collecting Opinions: Mic Placement, Jazz Trio

S

stevieb

Just another guy, really.
My usual room- 40 x 40 with 25' ceilings, plus 14 x 40 dais. Small church sanctuary, upholstered chairs (not pews.)

Jazz trio- electric guitar, bass (not sure if upright or electric- probably upright,) piano.

Mics- AT 4040, several Shure SM-58's and 57's, choir condenser hanging from ceiling, two SM-18's. (all others in New Orleans, so inaccesable.)

Recording is NOT the main purpose, here- live concert is. Thus, whatever recording or mic placement I do will need to be unobtrusive.

Recording to a Zoom R16.

Thinking:
Channel Mic
1 Direct from guitar amp
2 sm57 on guitar amp
3 sm18 - piano (stereo)
4 sm57- bass
5 Choir condenser
6 AT4040
7 sm-18 piano (stereo)
8 sm58- room mic.

If no one replies, I am sure I got it, but other ideas, fresh to me, are welcome.

I recorded a bluegrass band with a similar setup (fewer mics- didn't use the choir condenser or sm18's,) in the same room, with good results, btw.
 
mixsit said:
That would be 10 inputs?
What's '#6?
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Nah, the two stereo piano inputs are two mics, set in or on the piano to provide what would become a stereo mix. Sorry I was not clear.

6 is the Audio Technica 4040 condenser.
A couple of changes, already:
Mic 1 will be BASS direct, not guitar.
Input 8 will probably be direct from the live-sound board (vocals only, for a couple of guest vocalist.)
I'll probably end up using the choir mic as the room mic.
 
stevieb said:
Nah, the two stereo piano inputs are two mics, set in or on the piano to provide what would become a stereo mix. Sorry I was not clear.
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A pair- just spread in assignment.

6 is the Audio Technica 4040 condenser..
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..We knew that. And...?
(inquiring minds want to know..:D

DI to the bass seems a logical swap.
 
"what's #6?" was really asking the purpose of the AT.

Two mikes on piano is good
miked guitar amp is good
bass direct in is good
miked bass amp is good if you have spare channels
vox mike is good (58 or whatever)
use the hanging mikes for room
 
Okay, now I understand.

When I recorded the blue grass band (actually, there were two bands that night,) the 4040 was my main input channel. Both bands- first was a duo, second was 6 pieces- sounded quite good. A diff. was I used it for sound reinforcement, and BG bands are accustom to clustering 'round a condenser, but if I can get the 2 jazzmen (well, one is a jazzwoman) to set up in a big semi-circle, I think it might work for them, too. I am thinking of placing it rather low so the singers don't think it's for them (singers think everything is for them) and sing into it...
 
I've used a single mike on bluegrass (and other acoustic ensembles) and gotten respectable results. The technique works best with bands that are practiced in it and can manage their internal balance well.

I think that with a jazz trio you are looking at a different animal, and it may not be as effective.

In any case, even though it's a not uncommon technique, I am not enamoured with it. It arose because, at the time, that's all they had . . . a single mike in a radio station . . . not because it was the best technique to adopt for a particular type of band. I suspect there is an element of faddishness about it.

If you want the greatest control over the sound, then miking up separately seems intrinsically better.
 
gecko zzed said:
I've used a single mike on bluegrass (and other acoustic ensembles) and gotten respectable results. The technique works best with bands that are practiced in it and can manage their internal balance well.

I think that with a jazz trio you are looking at a different animal, and it may not be as effective.

In any case, even though it's a not uncommon technique, I am not enamoured with it. It arose because, at the time, that's all they had . . . a single mike in a radio station . . . not because it was the best technique to adopt for a particular type of band. I suspect there is an element of faddishness about it.

If you want the greatest control over the sound, then miking up separately seems intrinsically better.
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I gotta go with gecko, and not because he saved me 20% on my car insurance. A single mic on a jazz trio will be lacking.

But if I'm reading you right ..... that 4040 is just for ambient sound and not the main recording mic right?
In that case I think it's a useful idea ..... if it doesn't work you can always pull it out of the mix.
 
Yep, that's exactly the plan, Gecko and Bob. FME, bluegrass bands stay with the one-mic setup because they are hidebound traditionalist. (THAT drove me NUTS when I had my BG band...:rolleyes: ) I am expecting the jazz trio to not be as mindful of the lone connie, both because it's not a big part of their experience and because it won't be used for sound reinforcement.

Thanks for your input.
 
not so sure how much I love the idea of a SM57 on bass. I like dynamics on bass, but usually beefier ones. Condensers usually sound good on bass. At the very least I would swap the 58 onto bass and the 57 onto the room mic.
 
stevieb said:
I recorded a bluegrass band with a similar setup (fewer mics- didn't use the choir condenser or sm18's,) in the same room, with good results, btw.
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Well, that's more useful feeback than you're going to get from people who aren't familiar with your ears, your space, the talent, and your capabilities as an engineer. Sounds like you're on the right track.
 
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