Beginner, lost because of the web [MIXING ISSUES]

Gaby7575

New member
Hello, I'm new to audio mixing and I spent my last days watching tutorials on Youtube. I do electro, I use Fl Studio and I have a lot of problems.

1. I don't know where to start: on Youtube, many mixing techniques, more or less complicated, have been explained. But, they are contradictory and I'm lost.

2. Gain Staging: Before starting my mix, I reduce my sounds to -15 dB. I do busses (drums, bass, leads). The problem is that the sound is low. I use, in Fl Studio, FabFilter Pro C to compress my sounds. However, my sounds are not very loud and the gain reduction doesn't work, so the compression doesn't work.

3. How do I get a volume? I listen to music (NCS, Spinning Records), and I wonder how to get so much volume, so much energy. Even by compressing and using Ozone imager and Ozone maximizer, I don't get such a result.

4. Why use a multiband compressor in the master? In the tutorials I watched, most producers use multiband compressors (ozone, maximus ...). Yet we already compress the sounds in the mixing. Why isn't the sound too compressed if you compress it again in the mastering?

5. My mix is very "heavy" and harsh. I have mixed a music, but it is not smooth and balanced. Yet without the mastering, I don't have any problems. In fact, my drop sounds very good, loud and fluid, but the rest of my mix is much less loud, the sounds are not clear.

I would like to have clear answers that don't contradict each other.

Thank you very much.
 
First off, there are different kinds of dB measurements for different purposes. When recording it's generally best for a signal's average level to be around -18dBFS. That means it's crossing -18dBFS regularly. Depending on the kind of signal (vocal, acoustic guitar, heavily distorted electric guitar) the peak might be quite a bit higher. The main thing is to keep peaks well away from 0dBFS. For certain kinds of signal, especially percussion, there isn't enough sustain to set levels by average so you just have to make sure peaks don't go near 0dBFS.

During mixing the same basic goal applies, stay well away from 0dBFS. At this stage it will sound lower than a finished commercial mix. Don't worry, get your mix right before trying to make it as loud as your references.

Compressing things at several stages seems to be common. Generally, the very last stage of dynamics (or any) processing is the mastering limiter. The function of that is to take just the highest peaks down so you can raise the overall level to your desired target. Many experienced mastering engineers will suggest you avoid multiband compression entirely unless you're trying to repair some deficiency in the mix (but it's your mix so you could just go back and fix it at that stage).

As for your "heavy and harsh" mix, that would take hearing it to be able to suggest solutions. The MP3 Clinic is where to post mixes for help.
 
Thanks :)

I also found this trick on the web :

Gain stage every sound to -12db
Turn up the Master fader 12db
Adjust each track's fader, only reducing and never gaining
Reset the Master fader back to 0db


Do you think it's ok to start a mix like this ?
 
There's lots of advise on the web, and often contradictory.

But the advantage of all that is that you can try it out and see if it works.

If it does, then you go away happy. If it doesn't, then you try out some other method.

However, if yo are relatively new to this, then it's good to start off simply.

* Leave the master output at 0.
* Pull all faders to zero.
* Then bring up percussive and bass sounds first, and get them to play nice together
* Bring up melody lines next (either vocals or lead instruments), and get them sitting nicely
* The bring up other instruments, pads and so on just enough so that they fill ther roles without swamping everything else.

Don't worry about overall level at this stage. orry about the sonic landscape and get that right.
Just make sure you are not getting into the red.

If there is a murkiness about the sound, then yo may have to do some remedial work with EQ, compression and so on.

If your compression isn't working because your sounds are quiet, you may need to adjust its threshold.
 
Thanks :)

I also found this trick on the web :

Gain stage every sound to -12db
Turn up the Master fader 12db
Adjust each track's fader, only reducing and never gaining
Reset the Master fader back to 0db


Do you think it's ok to start a mix like this ?

I think that's a bit mindless. Not that it couldn't work, but it's not that hard to do it in a more thoughtful way. What I definitely wouldn't do is turn the master fader up 12dB. Instead, I'd turn my monitor control up to get the needed volume.

Also, you say -12dB but don't specify if that's an average or a peak level. That will make a big difference.
 
The thing with Internet info is that often the providers don't realise their advice is equipment and context specific. I use cubase. I never, ever even think about gain staging until I do something stupid.

I use the real gain control on my interface in the same way I have done since the 70s. Sing or talk at performance level and turn up till the red light comes on. Back off a bit. Done. In the software the input gain fader rarely needs touching so each track will mimic this when recorded. And the fader sits at the level cubase presets. Sometimes I know that because of how a vsti on a track works the result will be too low and the fader run out of travel. I then add a compressor with no compression, but use the makeup gain to give me full fader travel. If I use groups, the gain staging automatically gives me th gain reduction and the group fader can sit at or usually just below the preset position.

I might need to drop the master fader a bit but this has no audible effect I can hear.

What I NEVER have to do is up one stage lower another and fiddle. It's just not something I need to do. I certainly don't hear problems that need curing and I suspect somebody that does odd things finds a cure then promotes this as good practice to people who don't have the problem.

Remember the number one rule on YouTube. Any video that starts Yo, how you hanging? Or talks about beats or tunes contains no useful info to normal people!
 
I use Fl Studio.

Also, you can add Izotope Maximizer after reseting the Master fader back to 0db ?

I don't know if -12 dB is an average level or a peak level.

Is it ok to have a low threshold when compressing (-20 dB or - 30dB) ?
 
I don't know if -12 dB is an average level or a peak level.

You will need to know the difference. The peak level is the highest point of the signal, even if it's just for a fraction of a second. The average level is the zone where the signal spends the most time, or at least passes through most often while going up and down.
 
Is it ok to have a low threshold when compressing (-20 dB or - 30dB) ?

Sure. If your average level is hovering around -18dBFS then a threshold for a compressor could be -26dBFS. That's equivalent to -8dB on an analog compressor. With a 4:1 ratio you'll get something like 6dB of reduction. Of course that depends a lot on how the attack and release are set. If they're very fast then you'll get more reduction because it's acting more like a peak compressor than an RMS (a type of average) compressor.
 
I just started my mix. I did gain staging first, but when I turn up the speakers the sound becomes bad (I think it's clipping). What can I do ?

And should a music have a lot of volume during mixing or after mastering ?
 
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Where is the clipping happening? Are you going over zero on your master bus?

During mixing you may need to turn your monitors up higher than you do for listening to mastered recordings.
 
I just started my mix. I did gain staging first, but when I turn up the speakers the sound becomes bad (I think it's clipping). What can I do ?

And should a music have a lot of volume during mixing or after mastering ?

Get the mix sounding right first rather than worrying about the final level. It's better to be too soft than too loud, because you can always deal with that later.

Leave the master at unity. Maybe turn your monitors up a bit. Concentrate on the sound.
 
I just started my mix. I did gain staging first, but when I turn up the speakers the sound becomes bad (I think it's clipping). What can I do ?

And should a music have a lot of volume during mixing or after mastering ?

When you say it becomes bad, how? if you are clipping then something is being over driven, I record at -12 to -18, because on mixdown when you add plugins you also add gain. if you record at zero, then you have no headroom for mixdown. you can always add gain on mastering to get it to a commercial level. a sample of what you are hearing would help. This is a complicated rabbit hole you have choose to dive down. but a fun one.:D
 
When you say it becomes bad, how? if you are clipping then something is being over driven, I record at -12 to -18, because on mixdown when you add plugins you also add gain. if you record at zero, then you have no headroom for mixdown. you can always add gain on mastering to get it to a commercial level. a sample of what you are hearing would help. This is a complicated rabbit hole you have choose to dive down. but a fun one.:D

You know what, as a hangover from my analog days I record all the way to -1, even touching 0, of course in the analog days to +3, +5 or even +10 depending on the sound I wanted LOL, but we were hitting tape. I actually believe that hitting hard always sounds better and reduces the noise floor if you are using any analog gear in the chain, recording or mixing. I also feel that hitting the converters harder does somehow change the sound.

You know you can also turn things down later?

Alan
 
You know what, as a hangover from my analog days I record all the way to -1, even touching 0, of course in the analog days to +3, +5 or even +10 depending on the sound I wanted LOL, but we were hitting tape. I actually believe that hitting hard always sounds better and reduces the noise floor if you are using any analog gear in the chain, recording or mixing. I also feel that hitting the converters harder does somehow change the sound.

You know you can also turn things down later?

Alan

I doubt it's a matter of hitting the converters harder, I suspect it's driving your analog stages harder. I bet you could get some of that by running the preamp gain hotter and backing off the outputs to maintain a normal dBFS level.
 
My first impression when I read your post is that you are attempting to solve too many problems at once. Or, put another way, maybe you are attempting a master's degree project without all the practice and understanding - and there would be a lot of it gained over a long time - which would come with a Bachelor's degree. I suggest that you give more thought to making recordings to learn more about the capabilities of the equipment you have. I have been doing my own multitrack recordings for over fifty years (I'm 76 years old), and I focus firstly on having fun with my music, then on playing with the knobs on my mixer to get the kind of sound I want - without worrying too much about multiband compression and the like. Being totally blind, I cannot see the level meters on my mixer and Tascam DP24, but I consider myself to be a good hand at hearing any distortion, clipping, hum, and the like when I listen to my work in stages as I go through the process of making a recording. There is a Mastering function on my Tascam, but I still don't know how to use it because several of its parameters require sight in order to address each function (compression, EQ, and the like). For the most part, I am quite well satisfied with the recordings I make using the functions that I know.
Bear in mind, too, that if you read twenty Youtube presentations, you may very well come out with at least five different sets of recommendations - some of which might even be mutually exclusive. Granted, if high-quality professional results are your goal, you would probably want to go about learning the craft of a recording engineer. For my part, I know that I'm not there and probably will never get there. The only aid I have by way of recording level indication is a "home-brew" meter I built using an audio bar-graph driver to give a tone of varying pitch related directly to the level of signal coming out of the monitor line on the Tascam. I have a good set of Audio Technica "studio headphones" and a pair of JVL monitor speakers in addition to the regular "listening speakers" connected to my stereo amp. If I were wanting a professional recording, I'd probably need to take my Tascam to a studio or at least to someone skilled in audio mastering to take over the sliders on my deck to tweak the levels for a good mix, then master it.
Finally, my suggestion to you would be to consider one approach out of the ones you have read on Youtube, then play with that approach to see where it gets you in terms of the quality of your recording. Also remember that in some cases familiarity can be a mixed blessing because you have heard the piece so much that your ears become dull to it. Don't be afraid to lay a song aside for a day or so to come at it again. I suspect that as you gain experience, you will use some of the principles you have learned from several of those Youtube discussions to get the best sound you can get on your song on your equipment in your home studio - all those parts influence the sound and your technique to get it.
 
Hello !


First of all thank you for all your advice

I have new problems with some of my sound frequencies.

- When I use a cutoff, there are new frequencies that sound bad.I would like to fix these problems but only when there is the cutoff, because in the rest of my music I take the cutoff off and that sound is good.


- On another sound I recorded, I applied an EQ and there are still some frequencies left. The problem is that some of them sound louder than the others which makes an awful sound. There are too many "imbalances".

Thanks.
 
I know very little about 'mixing' and buggerall about mastering but, you talk of "clipping when playing through speakers"? So maybe they are not up to the job or (most likely) you are playing too 'king loud!

So, IMHO you need to START at the output and 'calibrate' your speakers. The 'pro studio' level is about 83dB SPL but that is in fact rather loud in a domestic setting. Get yourself a C weighted Sound Level Meter, $20 will buy one good enough and then either Google "monitor calibration" or come back here.

Dave.
 
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