bass and kick drum

fishkiller

New member
I recently did a recording and the kick drum and the bass are canceling each other out. I know I need to EQ them to help the seperation. My question is What freq should I target on each instrument? I have had this problem before and have been able to remedy the problem. This time my old tricks have not seemed to work. ( compress and eq). Thanks for the help.
 
You might also try adding some (approx.) 4k to the kick to make it a bit more defined in the mix?
 
Another useful item is to pan one left and the other right just
a bit (i use about 5%).....your not really trying to hear the panning well, if you can you have panned to far. This will help give each it's own space also.
V
 
Canceling or just masking each other ?
Canceling is phase issue, and you can try to reverse polarity of one track, or go to editor and move one track 2-3 ms back or forth.

If they are just masking each other, because they are in similar freq range, try this;
put nice short room reverb on kick drum, 0.4 - 0.8 sec, use early reflections parameter if available, medium spread, and cut low end of reverb ( do this on aux send or in effect if possible, it sounds more natural than eq-ing reverb return )

now fatten the bass; use two channels of same bass sound, but delay one for 8 - 15 ms and pan hard left/right; this is doubling effect

This way you can mix two similar sounds, point is to define sonic space around them - reverb gives deinition. :)
 
The frequencies COULD be lots of places but of course they are ACTUALLY in specific locations.What's the matter?Ears not precise enough to identify the exact frequency of your drummers kick?Then you need a frequency analysis program to zero in on the spots to cut or boost.Using this software on my last demo,I discovered the drummers kick was concentrated from 57-62 Hz and his snare sound was centered at 125 Hz.Details like that really help you to make more surgical cuts and less gouging of freqs to make a spot for an instrument to sit.
Use the logrhythmic scale to get better detail on stuff under 100 Hz.
Tom
 
i wouldnt worry about the low frequencies much, besides, they will only be heard on good bass systems. Go more for trying to define the highs on the kick. Bass is most likely masking over the kick, not the other way around. Like monte said, add some 2-4k frequency, then cut some in those frequencies in the guitar, because the guitar will mask those frequencies. You could also try a little cut in the 400hz area in the bass.

Darnold
 
If you really have a tough time getting the kick to poke thru... use a ducker on the bass so it drops in level whenever the kick hits........

Works very well........

Bruce
 
Igormeister said:
If they are just masking each other, because they are in similar freq range, try this;
put nice short room reverb on kick drum, 0.4 - 0.8 sec, use early reflections parameter if available, medium spread, and cut low end of reverb ( do this on aux send or in effect if possible, it sounds more natural than eq-ing reverb return )

now fatten the bass; use two channels of same bass sound, but delay one for 8 - 15 ms and pan hard left/right; this is doubling effect

This way you can mix two similar sounds, point is to define sonic space around them - reverb gives deinition. :)

huh?
 
I was going to make a whole new thread for this, but I guess I'll just invade this one.

When you're saying 'cut 400hz from the guitar,' how much db are you generally cutting? All of it? 10db? 3db?

Also, I'm working on mixing my drum tracks, and I know the kick drum is prominant at say, 80hz, and the snare is at 300hz. Now I want to cut 80hz out of the snare, and 300 from the kick. Do I want to boost those frequencies on the tracks (like boost 300 for the snare and 80 for the kick)?

And one more thing. I hear when mixing a song you usually wanna chop off the bottom end of the guitar (and newbies usually are scared to chop off so much). What's the usual frequency where you chop off the guitar at?

Christopher
 
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Chris - Use the minimum amount neccessary to do the job. Sometimes 1-3db is enough.

You are confused on the kick/snare stuff. The problem isnt that they will conflict with each other it is the other instruments conflict with them. Cut the bass guitar a bit at 80hz until the kick is coming thru clearly.

For guitar anwhere from 100-250hz is pretty good.

To duck the bass you can use the sidechain on a compressor on the bass track and use the kick signal as the trigger.

And yes you want to worry about the bass levels VERY MUCH because they will rob you of valuable headroom.
 
yodal

Tanks to all that replied. I posted awhile ago and only had one hit. Just checked back and was surprised to see all the posts. I'll try a few of the suggestions and get back with my results. Like I said I have run into this problem before and been able to solve the problem usally with some compression and eq. Never thought of adding some reverb just to make the kd stand out. Not sure what a ducker is? What is it? As for multi band eq I use a finializer. Thanks again.

FK
 
Tex explained ducking.Its like the tv commercials where the music is real loud untill the announcer's voice comes in,then the music ducks under the voice.When he finishes speaking the music comes back up.Use a compressor with a sidechain.The compressor is on the track to be ducked.The track doing the ducking is plugged into the sidechain and controlls the compression of the ducked track like a trigger.
Tom
 
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