Bass Audible on Laptop Speakers
- Thread starter Nola
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violent grey
New member
smaller speakers struggle to replicate the lower freqs, so that is why we hardly hear the bassline on computers, headphones, small monitors.
like you said, one tip is to eq it a lil in the mid or mid high area... but its not sounding ideal right? where is what i do
i mix with the kick and bass and snare/clap as my guide so its important for me to get these right before even moving on to the other samples.
the kick i get the main sample in and eq it normally. usually high pass at 50hz and low pass around 5khz. my eq for the highs is around 7khz... which is a little high but that is for THIS sample... some, usually, my eq is around 5kz - 7khz and I never go above 12db ... even if it sounds like it needs more. I will adjust in another eq module or process. (I just dont like increasing or decreasing at one time, more than around 12-24 db of anything... idk why, it just sounds better making multiple smaller adjustments than one large adjustment in one process... but thats what my ears tell me. I suppose this could depend on many things and in fact could be bad advice idk, again, go with what you think sounds good. for the lower eq points Im attenuating or accentuating + or - 6 db... its really the high eq that gets the 12 db increase on the kick. and sometimes, depending on the rest of the songs harmonics, you may find it sound better lower around 3khz, thats fine. just keep it out of the 250-750 range imo... where mud can easily accumulate.
kick
bass
The bass didnt need much editing as it was already edited in sound design, again, this is a mix of another artists work. so I set a basic roll off just to control the harmonics range. I did add some compression and some eq in the master section, but for this track alone, not much was needed.
like you said, one tip is to eq it a lil in the mid or mid high area... but its not sounding ideal right? where is what i do
i mix with the kick and bass and snare/clap as my guide so its important for me to get these right before even moving on to the other samples.
the kick i get the main sample in and eq it normally. usually high pass at 50hz and low pass around 5khz. my eq for the highs is around 7khz... which is a little high but that is for THIS sample... some, usually, my eq is around 5kz - 7khz and I never go above 12db ... even if it sounds like it needs more. I will adjust in another eq module or process. (I just dont like increasing or decreasing at one time, more than around 12-24 db of anything... idk why, it just sounds better making multiple smaller adjustments than one large adjustment in one process... but thats what my ears tell me. I suppose this could depend on many things and in fact could be bad advice idk, again, go with what you think sounds good. for the lower eq points Im attenuating or accentuating + or - 6 db... its really the high eq that gets the 12 db increase on the kick. and sometimes, depending on the rest of the songs harmonics, you may find it sound better lower around 3khz, thats fine. just keep it out of the 250-750 range imo... where mud can easily accumulate.
kick
bass
The bass didnt need much editing as it was already edited in sound design, again, this is a mix of another artists work. so I set a basic roll off just to control the harmonics range. I did add some compression and some eq in the master section, but for this track alone, not much was needed.
Last edited:
violent grey
New member
here is another project i am doing, that is my own creation
kick
kick parallel
bass
bass parallel
In this song, I have done some different eq and rolloffs for the main and parallel channels but they should give you an idea of how the overlapped or mixed end product would act on different media... The differences sound rather subtle all on their own but you can hear the difference when muted out of the mix.
hope this helps you find the over all art in mixing better.
one major thing i wish i had tackled earlier, was how things sound in my room. ie monitor placement, and acoustic treatment to balance my rooms tone out so im not making changes to problems that are only caused by my room and not the mix! oh, another thing, I tend to use my monitors in my studio to do the sound design and mixing. but before i say i got a rough mix, i have to take it to my phone. i know everyone goes to the car or another sound system, i just dont have access to that. i use an older android with a surprisingly decent sound system on it! i use this to check the highs being to high and the kick and bass to punch out some where in the mix... till i get these three on the phone to stand out and in balance, i keep working on the eq in the mix. its a long process because i do it like this, i sound design, save as raw, then i mix and save as draft, then master and save as draft, then check the phone. so anytime i have to go back i have to redo the rest of the changed as remembered. thing is i have a decent system for it and its all in the naming scheme of the files as you save your progress.
raw phase,
mix phase,
master phase,
critique phase,
usually back to mix and so on till i get a master that sounds alright on both the stupid monitors AND the phone. I do not use headphones for mixing, unless that involves turntables and i mean dj mixing ... i still think using monitors in a tuned room gives you the best experience.
kick
kick parallel
bass
bass parallel
In this song, I have done some different eq and rolloffs for the main and parallel channels but they should give you an idea of how the overlapped or mixed end product would act on different media... The differences sound rather subtle all on their own but you can hear the difference when muted out of the mix.
hope this helps you find the over all art in mixing better. one major thing i wish i had tackled earlier, was how things sound in my room. ie monitor placement, and acoustic treatment to balance my rooms tone out so im not making changes to problems that are only caused by my room and not the mix! oh, another thing, I tend to use my monitors in my studio to do the sound design and mixing. but before i say i got a rough mix, i have to take it to my phone. i know everyone goes to the car or another sound system, i just dont have access to that. i use an older android with a surprisingly decent sound system on it! i use this to check the highs being to high and the kick and bass to punch out some where in the mix... till i get these three on the phone to stand out and in balance, i keep working on the eq in the mix. its a long process because i do it like this, i sound design, save as raw, then i mix and save as draft, then master and save as draft, then check the phone. so anytime i have to go back i have to redo the rest of the changed as remembered. thing is i have a decent system for it and its all in the naming scheme of the files as you save your progress.
raw phase,
mix phase,
master phase,
critique phase,
usually back to mix and so on till i get a master that sounds alright on both the stupid monitors AND the phone.
I do not use headphones for mixing, unless that involves turntables and i mean dj mixing ... i still think using monitors in a tuned room gives you the best experience.
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rob aylestone
Moderator
People who want bass invest in better speakers, bigger speakers, dedicated speaker to cover very small ranges of frequencies, and the notion that ANY laptop can do this is a bit hopeful. My MacBook has simply awful bass response. It's a laptop. It's got small speakers. If you boost the bass, the volume drops because you run out of headroom and everything distorts.
violent grey
New member
Agreed, you do not want to do sound design or mixing or mastering on laptop speakers... i did read the OP as he was mixing on a separate system. IF the OP is mixing on laptop speakers, yea you need to get some monitors, a sub, and some room treatment, could be basic like 4 reflection panels and two bass traps, to start. When I decided to make this a serious hobby, I invested in 250 sq ft of rockwool (250$ worth?) and did my own floor to ceiling corner traps, four side reflection panels, two front panels, four rear panels, two bass traps, and 4 cloud panels. I also built a wall in my room, to make the room not square, to give it a ratio that was acceptable for sound application.
You dont want a room that has dimensions that are the same, even, or multiples of one another. my room is too small, like most home studios, but it is to scale of the golden ratios. I have an 11 ft wide x 13.5 ft deep x 8.5 ft tall room. the wall I made to close the width down to make it rectangular. its a cheap wall, made out of 1/2 x 1 inch strips and sound absorbing board. The size and shape of your room is one of the most crucial parts of a studio when it comes to the goal of having a decent bass response when mixing with monitors. basically any room you put speakers in, that room becomes a speaker cabinet, and with different size and shape come different sounds. reflections are always going to exist, so its managing these to create a sweet spot, where you are neither in a null or a void.
I went with larger monitors because Im aware and intend to do my stuff at a lower volume... i have owned 5 inch and 8 inch monitors. i will say the 8s are nicer, but they are louder. and the 8s have better bass but no where good enough to mix from. you need a sub, at least depending on music... i do. 40-80-120 hz is the low end where most speakers loose their accuracy and drive. a sub is designed for these applications. mine is hardly on... lol its so powerful and loud in my small room. which is perfect! i like to mix at lower volume, around 60-80 db depending, usually im around 70 db or less for constant mixing or sound design. right now, im sorting the maths to get my room analyzed. i know i have a 44 hz standing wave... this was amplified by my triple computer screens, and once i removed them, using one, the sound can go thru the area between the screen adn monitors, which took away the front live area, with a bad bass boost. this recent change i made has drastically improved my sweet zone and my mixing!!! I did move the monitors from 6 ft wide to 4 ft wide and wow, the difference was 100% better! just one idea to help with finding that sweet spot!
There is a lot to learn and a lot that can affect how it sounds where you sit, where the monitors are positioned off the side walls, front wall, etc.
You dont want a room that has dimensions that are the same, even, or multiples of one another. my room is too small, like most home studios, but it is to scale of the golden ratios. I have an 11 ft wide x 13.5 ft deep x 8.5 ft tall room. the wall I made to close the width down to make it rectangular. its a cheap wall, made out of 1/2 x 1 inch strips and sound absorbing board. The size and shape of your room is one of the most crucial parts of a studio when it comes to the goal of having a decent bass response when mixing with monitors. basically any room you put speakers in, that room becomes a speaker cabinet, and with different size and shape come different sounds. reflections are always going to exist, so its managing these to create a sweet spot, where you are neither in a null or a void.
I went with larger monitors because Im aware and intend to do my stuff at a lower volume... i have owned 5 inch and 8 inch monitors. i will say the 8s are nicer, but they are louder. and the 8s have better bass but no where good enough to mix from. you need a sub, at least depending on music... i do. 40-80-120 hz is the low end where most speakers loose their accuracy and drive. a sub is designed for these applications. mine is hardly on... lol its so powerful and loud in my small room. which is perfect! i like to mix at lower volume, around 60-80 db depending, usually im around 70 db or less for constant mixing or sound design. right now, im sorting the maths to get my room analyzed. i know i have a 44 hz standing wave... this was amplified by my triple computer screens, and once i removed them, using one, the sound can go thru the area between the screen adn monitors, which took away the front live area, with a bad bass boost. this recent change i made has drastically improved my sweet zone and my mixing!!! I did move the monitors from 6 ft wide to 4 ft wide and wow, the difference was 100% better! just one idea to help with finding that sweet spot!
There is a lot to learn and a lot that can affect how it sounds where you sit, where the monitors are positioned off the side walls, front wall, etc.
mjbphotos
Moderator
I'm quite sure Nola is NOT mixing on laptop speakers! What's the low en on those little flat 1" or 2" speakers - maybe 250-300Hz? Higher? If your bass audio component does not have any harmonic frequencies up in that range, there simply will be nothing to boost! I simply don't worry about it - anyone listening to music on a laptop's built-in speakers isn't worth working for 'better' sound - and trying to accommodate them is going to leave you with crappy sound on better speakers. One trick at the tracking stage is to repeat your bass part on guitar, so it's played up an octave and has the harmonics of a guitar (which are louder than a basses'). Of course this doesn't work for the kick.
keith.rogers
Well-known member
Nola
Well-known member
The thing is, some pro records I listen to frequently do have bass on my laptop speakers. Van Morrison's Astral Weeks comes to mind (but there are many others). I can hear Richard Davis chugging away, even on tiny laptop speakers. So I know it is possible. I'm just not sure what they're doing. Sure, it sounds weak for bass, but it's there adding nice counterpoint lines, and it helps the mix on the laptop. I don't mix on laptop speakers. I do test mixes on them, though, and would like to at least just hear the bass a little! This song has a nice bass line and it would be nice to hear it on the laptop. Violent Grey and Keith -- thanks, I will dig into the info you posted some more and experiment.
keith.rogers
Well-known member
The thing is, what you are hearing on speakers that are physically incapable of producing the real (fundamental) bass frequency is fake bass, i.e., some higher overtones. The fact that those older recordings work on laptops is possibly as much accident as anything, though playing on your equivalent of an AM radio from the 70s/80s might have been a kind of test validation, like earbuds are now.
Where those overtones come from could simply be the original track, depending on the style, bass/amp settings, effects, or it could be something done in production like the video. You could even try some kind of octave (up) effect on a parallel track/aux-send. I think the real trick is slipping that stuff in so it doesn't really detract from the original bass but gives you what you want in the smartphone/laptop use cases.
Gtoboy
Well-known member
You are on the right path- the upper harmonics of the bass need to be boosted slightly and whatever else is in the same frequencies cut a little but the choice of freq is found from multiplying the fundamental so double the frequency of the notes you are playing and apply small changes. There are several bass plugins that do this using complex algorithms that you may find easier to use. Another trick is to copy the track and eq one so it is all top end and the other bottom end then they can be compressed/automated differently. A bit of harmonic distortion will also add to the ability to be heard.
jkuehlin
New member
Here's some tricks I use - all of them play a unique roll in getting the bass not only sounding correct, but also translating well on smaller speakers
Waves Maxx bass
Neve 1073 (The waves will do if you don't have the UAD)
Kush Clariphonic
UAD 610B
UAD Eden/GK/Ampeg sims running in parallel to a DI
UAD 1176 All buttons in
UAD SSL E mk2 channel strip with input selected in flip mode
Waves CLA bass with all buttons disengaged except for Pitch
Boz Mongoose to control phase issues
Slate Bomber, SLP Transient Designer, Waves Smack Attacker
I often use the Waves, Izotope, and Nugen meters to balance the levels between the kick and bass for your genre of instrumental music.
Here's a link with from another forum that I work with where a group of our top guys went back and forth for a good couple weeks sharing tips almost exclusively on how to get big fat in-your-face bass sound that also translate well on laptops. This one was neat for us because we got to take a good look under the hood at each others processing chains and hear the plugins in context and in action. There's some pretty in-depth dialogue over mixing bass guitars on this thread if you want to have a look:
Fresh collab needs some bashing - Bash This Recording - indie recording depot
And here's a link to one of mine that I was having problems with, then figured out how to resolve:
Having some trouble with bass levels on this song - Bash This Recording - indie recording depot
Waves Maxx bass
Neve 1073 (The waves will do if you don't have the UAD)
Kush Clariphonic
UAD 610B
UAD Eden/GK/Ampeg sims running in parallel to a DI
UAD 1176 All buttons in
UAD SSL E mk2 channel strip with input selected in flip mode
Waves CLA bass with all buttons disengaged except for Pitch
Boz Mongoose to control phase issues
Slate Bomber, SLP Transient Designer, Waves Smack Attacker
I often use the Waves, Izotope, and Nugen meters to balance the levels between the kick and bass for your genre of instrumental music.
Here's a link with from another forum that I work with where a group of our top guys went back and forth for a good couple weeks sharing tips almost exclusively on how to get big fat in-your-face bass sound that also translate well on laptops. This one was neat for us because we got to take a good look under the hood at each others processing chains and hear the plugins in context and in action. There's some pretty in-depth dialogue over mixing bass guitars on this thread if you want to have a look:
Fresh collab needs some bashing - Bash This Recording - indie recording depot
And here's a link to one of mine that I was having problems with, then figured out how to resolve:
Having some trouble with bass levels on this song - Bash This Recording - indie recording depot
Nola
Well-known member
That seems like the best method, but in Cubase setting up a bus doesn't work like that. It's much more confusing and you have to do everything manually. I'll have to dig into it.
Nola
Well-known member
Actually this seems easier than bussing in Cubase. So you'd LP the bass at like 300hz on the original track and then HP the duplicate 300 and up and add distortion/harmonics to that track?
Edit: This worked excellently and was simple! Thank you. I used Soundtoys Little Radiator to do the job. I wasn't sure at what frequency to cut the bass spectrum. Any suggestions and how you decide?
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Gtoboy
Well-known member
I hate to say it but it depends on a the mix itself(all elements), you don't want to end up stepping on something else. Often using a less steep slope at around 500 on the low pass track and around 800 on the high pass track is a good place to start. Not having them cross over in the same place seems counter intuitive but remember where ever they don't cancel will be accentuated(two tracks playing the same frequencies effectively increasing the volume of those frequencies). And since your using soundtoys a little saturation also helps increase audibility and tame peaks without compressing
keith.rogers
Well-known member
Use your ears is, of course, the right answer. First, I'd try to leave the original track alone (whether dup'd or sent to an aux) if you're happy with it everywhere except laptop speakers and cheap earbuds, perhaps. Then, work the FX/EQ/fader on that extra track to address the "devices-w/o-LF" problem without creating new ones. So, whatever you do, I'd probably use both HPF and LPF to keep it in that 2x-3x fundamental range, keep it thin enough to not muddy up anything, or if that's a problem, duck it against anything else going on that's important in that range, e.g., it's [probably] more important to preserve the kick beater than have your fake base become noticeable on full-range systems.
keith.rogers
Well-known member
I just mean something that the listener perceives as bass, reproduced on a transducer like a laptop speaker, but which physically cannot move enough airmass to actually output the bass fundamental at an audible level relative to the rest of the content. So, while you might think you're hearing the bass, you're not hearing the real bass.
Nola
Well-known member
Gotcha! Thanks.
mixedbymatty
New member
Distortion and Saturation can help the bass cut through on smaller speakers. I mix a ton of hip-hop and I'm always distorting the 808. The upper harmonics of the bass are key too. I use the surfer eq quite a bit for bass. It will follow the bass note and only boost the notes as they are played. You can alos pick which harmonic you want it to follow. It doesn't always work but when it does it's magic.
andrushkiwt
Well-known member
Just buy some damn monitors already, would you? Jimmy is offering his Event's for $10, for reals. Ok, $10.01 currently, since I'm the highest bidder. If he actually does give them to me (he's knows I'm joking though, I'm sure), I will send them to your freakin apartment. This is "Mr. I-CAN-MIX-ON-HEADPHONES-4-LIFE" talking to you. I'm telling ya, I don't know why I ever neglected them to begin with. Cna't imagine doing another mix without them. And I'm only using Yamaha's.
Now that I know everything sits better, and my judgement calls are way more appropriate, I can focus on writing and improving the songs themselves. The guesswork is just about eliminated, aside from some really low end stuff.
Hopefully he sends them to me, so I can just give them to you.
Now that I know everything sits better, and my judgement calls are way more appropriate, I can focus on writing and improving the songs themselves. The guesswork is just about eliminated, aside from some really low end stuff.
Hopefully he sends them to me, so I can just give them to you.