Aaargh! somebody save my drowning drums!

O

Omcat

New member
I don't know if this is going to make
sense without hearing my demos,
but, and it's a big but (*oooh*),
when I mixdown my drum machine
kind of loses its punch.
In isolation on the 8 track, the
drums can sound really phat.
As soon as I start to bring my
bass and guitars up to what I think
is a good level the drums begin to
'shrink back' into the distance and
take on a puny quality.
I think this may be a stereo
placement problem (like the 3D thread going on in this forum) or something to do with my effect heavy guitar parts stealing the air.
Are there any rules of thumb for
this stuff?
As my songs have a techno/drum
and bass/trip-hop edge to them
its important that the drum machine
kicks and goes B-boOM (spelling!?)
when I need it to. Any ideas people?
 
Sounds like you're running into the same EQ space maybe...I don't know why else (assuming they really do sound good alone, and they're sitting nicely in the stereo field) they'd start getting lost.
 
Drum machines have a way of doing that.

Part of the problem is the lack of sounds available to really fit what you may be trying to do. Sure, they sound great on there own, but, your other sources may require a whole different drum sound to make everything fit together.

You may also not have the same fidelity going on with the other instruments that the drums have. They are probably nearly perfect, but your guitars may be leaving something to be desired. Possibly too much 2-4k on them that would rob the clarity right out of the drum tracks. Can' really say without hearing anything. Could be that the guitars have too much low end and are masking the drums.....etc.etc.etc......

Mixing is an art. It takes a long time to become intuitive about what is going to work and what won't. Even then, sometimes you gotta go for some extreme measures. Having a good handle on what your processing (eq's, compressors, gates, effects) can do will lend itself to experimenting, but, they are just tools. They don't make lame sounds great, or great sounds lame (i guess they could do both when either abused of brilliantly used), they help "step up" the sound a notch. Stepping up several sources in a mix can really make it rock, but, you gotta know when to say when. It is so easy to over do things while mixing. Too much of anything can trash the whole thing. I have found that about half of what you think you need winds up being about right.....LOL.

Anyway, maybe post some mixes for all to hear. There are some people on here that really give some good advice when they can hear the mix.

Good luck.
Ed Rei
Echo Star Studio www.echostarstudio.com
 
Welcome to the "Fletcher-Munson" effect (spelling?)

That is what ATRAC compression is all about.

The problem is all in your head. It does not exist outside of it.

Really.

All our heads are like that.

The frequencies are layered on top of each other and when given two or more identical frequencies the auditory part of our brain only passes the loudest of these frequencies on to the cognitive part of our brain.

If you want more drums, you will have to cut some dents in the overtones of the bass and guitar to make from for the drum overtones to be accepted and heard.

Also "making acoustical room" is not only about EQ. It is also about panning. Give each instrument its own "panning space" from the 7 o'clock setting to the 5 o'clock setting.

Move the guitar and bass around.
 
Thanks for the advice people.

SN - Y'mean it's all in my head?

Weurh, *hang on* that kind of induced a Zen state.

......

Urh, back again.

Things have beefed up a bit since
I've been a bit more strict (or 'experimental', for you optimists) with my panning and EQ settings.

Thanx agin.
 
Hey Cat of Oms:

Try putting your drum track on TWO TRACKS, like track 2 and track 7 or any two tracks that work on your rig. Watch out. You will have all of the drum punch you need.

Also, don't kill your drums with reverb...most drum pre-sets have reverb right from the drum box. {if you're doing live drums that's a different keg of beer}

You might also try putting your vocals on two tracks for more up front, if you do vocals.

Like most of the good knowledgeable people on this circuit say, PRACTICE, LISTEN, PRACTICE AND KEEP TWIDDLING THE KNOBS.

Green Hornet
 
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