44.1kHz track plays at correct tempo/pitch at 48kHz...How to make it correct at 44.1?

C

cbseparation

New member
So for my first post...I'm going to try and explain a serious mess that I've gotten myself into and can't find a way out of this wormhole.

I have a wav file that is at 44.1kHz, 16 bit that plays to the correct speed (pitch and tempo) when played at 48kHz. Is there anyway to make the song play "correctly" at 44.1kHz without changing the pitch of the recorded material?

For the life of me I don't know how I got into this situation. I record with Nuendo and into MOTU24i/o. I use a BigBen as an external clock. When recording our church group I was recording like i've done many years ago....long story but after my wife and I had our first child 3 years ago I stopped playing and recording to spend time with them. I used to record all the time but this is my first foray into recording since he was born. SO in the past I would record 48/24 and then dither down to 16/44.1. However, in my zeal to get recording and in the time crunch of moving all my gear to the church and setting things up...I apparently had the project setup to be at 44.1kHz and 24bit. Sooo...I thought the BigBen would trump the project setup in Nuendo and that doesn't seem to be the case. So everything was clocked at 48 and recorded as wave files into the computer at 44.1. Confused yet? I am too! LOL. I seriously have no clue how I got myself into this mess.

I literally have the BigBen and MOTU set to 48kHz but all the tracks that have been recorded are at 44.1kHz and then when midown to the correct 44.1kHz, 16bit...because the BigBen was set to 48kHz everything is wrong. Its a serious wormhole that I'm lost inside.

So I do the audio mixdown/export from Nuendo and dither it down to 16/44.1 and then do a little touchup in Wavelab at the same thing 16/44.1 and then play it back on the computer. Well the computer is sync'd to the 48kHz from BigBen and it sounds FINE. Tempo, key, etc. However, upon placing it in the car...it sounds slow as all get out.

So again, in simplest form, is there a way to take a track at 44.1kHz that plays to the correct speed (pitch, tempo, etc) when played at 48kHz. Is there anyway to make the song play at 44.1kHz without changing the pitch of the recorded material?

Or is there something else I can do without jeopadizing all the recorded material to this point?

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. I'm really in a bind here and I'm truly at a loss right now.

Thanks for any help here!
cbseparation
 
Your audio is still 48k but the sampling frequency property is set to 44.1k, from having your converter at 48k while your project properties had it set to 44.1k when you recorded.

When you import audio do you get an option to convert the sampling frequency if it doesn't match the project? Try importing the mix file to a new project set to 48k but don't let the DAW resample the audio. It may warn that it will play at the wrong speed, which is actually the right speed. I'm guessing a little since I don't know Nuendo, but I've had the same problem in Pro Tools.

Why are you using a master clock with the MOTU? There's no sonic benefit. External clocking is only necessary when you have a complicated setup with multiple digital devices.
 
cbseparation said:
So everything was clocked at 48 and recorded as wave files into the computer at 44.1.
Click to expand...

Hmmm...when I try to run a mismatch from what the master clock is set at...like clocking at 48 but recording at 44...the app won't do it, it tells me there is a mismatch. (I'm using Samplitude).
Plus...my converters will not run right if they are told to record at 44...but the clock is telling them to run at 48.

Wondering how you pulled that off...????

To me....if they play back correctly at 48...they should be 48 kHz files. Maybe the app is just showing as 44 in the project settings, but they are actually 48...?
Have you looked at the properties of the WAV files....what does it say they are?

If they are indeed 44 files....then do like BSG said...open a new project at 44 and simply import the audio WAV files into it.
If they are indeed 48 files....then open a new project at 48 and import them.
Bottom line...it is the converters that are going to want to be set at the correct WAV file rate...so again, if they play right at 48...they should be 48 files, and your application project settings are just misleading you.
 
so here is what I've found...
the project setup in nuendo shows 44.1 but when you try and change it it gives you an error that the clock can't be sync'd because there is an external clock attached.

My BigBen reads 48 and the Motu front reads 48.

So i opened up a new project and brought in exported tracks from the project at different rates. 48 and 44.1

The 48kHz files upon import asked if I wanted to change the rate from 48 to 44.1. SO I would understand that either Nuendo is still holding the 44.1 even though it isn't real OR the tracks aren't 48kHz? I again checked the properties of the files and they are show correctly. I named the files 44.1 and 48, and they show in the properties as being the same. The 41 tracks play up to speed while the 48 are slooooww. Completely backwards of what I expected.

So using the new project i loaded in several 44.1 files and wasn't given the choice to change the rate...again something is missing here (weird) ...and the files come in and play correctly. again the audio is being played back at 48kHz so in theory it should be the chipmunks. SO I pulled in a track ripped from a CD which would be 44.1/16 and...whallah...it plays like the chipmunks...which it should!!!

I mixed these files down to 44.1/16 and thought that when I played them via media player off the computer it would play like all the other ripped songs...like the chipmunks....but it didn't it was exactly the way it needs to be.

I'm losing it here. How I got myself into this mess I'll never know.

Oh I'm using the BigBen as my understanding 3 years ago...remember its been a little while for me...was that the BigBen would help eliminate jitter and help lock down the rates between the PCI-424 card and the MOTU 24i/o. At least that is what I remember. I'm debating on trying to take the tracks and remove the BigBen and see where it leads me.

I just get the feeling like something is holding the wrong rate inside Nuendo and what should be recorded tracks at 48kHz are really 44.1kHz but incorrect. If that makes ANY sense? I doubt it.

In the media pool folder on the computer. All the tracks that were recorded show 44kHz as the properties! given the setup and having the 48 rate locked in that shouldn't be the case. Again...like its projecting a 44.1 track to 48 and playing right on 48kHz playback only to be wrong once taken back to 44.1kHz.

UGGHHH....I gotta try and re-think this mess.

Thanks so much for the help guys...really appreciate it.
 
so i've changed my BigBen to 44.1 and just for good measure went back to Nuendo and changed the clock source. I'm now using the MOTU 424 internal clock. So now I bring in a 44.1 track...that should be correctly in sync....NOPE...its sloooow. So I bring in a 48 track and its EVEN slower...unbelievably slow. I didn't think this was possible. Shouldn't it play correctly? How is that possible?

Is there a way to "speed up" a 44.1 track to mimic what is heard in the 48kHz speed???? Thats really what needs to happen here. I have no idea how I got here, but things aren't really making sense. I'm sure they are...I'm just not capable of understanding it yet. I know this is all user error and I apologize for the long replies I'm just trying to figure this out and not lose all the work and time that has went into this track to date.
 
cbseparation said:
Oh I'm using the BigBen as my understanding 3 years ago...remember its been a little while for me...was that the BigBen would help eliminate jitter and help lock down the rates between the PCI-424 card and the MOTU 24i/o. At least that is what I remember. I'm debating on trying to take the tracks and remove the BigBen and see where it leads me.
Click to expand...

Master clocks are sometimes necessary, like with more than, say, two digital devices that have to be clocked together. Otherwise there is no advantage. There's no objective improvement to be had by clocking a single 24i/o externally. In fact, there's nothing to be gained from external clocking of four MOTU devices on the same card. Sell the Big Ben and buy something you actually need.

Does Your Studio Need A Digital Master Clock?
 
cbseparation said:
Is there a way to "speed up" a 44.1 track to mimic what is heard in the 48kHz speed???? Thats really what needs to happen here. I have no idea how I got here, but things aren't really making sense. I'm sure they are...I'm just not capable of understanding it yet. I know this is all user error and I apologize for the long replies I'm just trying to figure this out and not lose all the work and time that has went into this track to date.
Click to expand...

In Sony Sound Forge there's an option in the Resample process to change just the property setting in the file without actually resampling. That would be the simple and straightforward fix. Perhaps there's something else that can do a similar job. Audacity?
 
Thanks. Will do on the BigBen! With the internal sync I can now change the rate and its asking me to convert all the tracks to the new sample rate. I'm now backing up all the files before I go any further in case it literally converts the original audio file and not make a new one. Maybe this will help? Not sure but I'll also check into the Sound Forge option as well. Seems like if the track is slow being played at 44.1 then there would be a procedure to mathmatically speed up the 44.1 track to 48 and then mixback down to 44.1 again. Seems reasonable to me but don't know how or IF its possible.
 
It is possible. You change the property without changing the audio data. I know because I've done it more than once.

If it's possible to import your false-44.1k files into a 48k project without converting them that should get you started. If not then you need another solution. But it can definitely be done.
 
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