TheChikenMaster
I'm Unbalanced
choosing song order is like having sex. Go in gently, get ruff, the climax, then soften it out in the end.
rayc
retroreprobate
I've tried to sequqnce my stuff to make a faux album for myself & a long suffering friend or two but can't do it because I'm too close to the songs. the things I like most have had the least positive response in the MP3 Mixing Clinic etc etc.
I usually end up sequencing it chronologically - major cop out I know.
Oh, I did do a sequqnce based on responses within the clinic and that was interesting BUT there was little internal dynamic in the sequence it went loud to soft I think.
Looking forward to a new one from you RAMI & to yours Greg!
Almost every time I type sequence two fingered I end up with an extra Q. I thought I had corrected them all but NO!
I usually end up sequencing it chronologically - major cop out I know.
Oh, I did do a sequqnce based on responses within the clinic and that was interesting BUT there was little internal dynamic in the sequence it went loud to soft I think.
Looking forward to a new one from you RAMI & to yours Greg!
Almost every time I type sequence two fingered I end up with an extra Q. I thought I had corrected them all but NO!
DrewPeterson7
Sage of the Order
Here's how I did mine. I thought of it in terms of an old vinyl LP:
Track 1) strong
Track 2) stronger
Track 3) rip heads off
Track 4) change it up a little
Track 5) really throw em a curveball
Track 6) getting back to normal - if this was an LP, it would be the end of side one
Track 7) strong - beginning of side two
Track 8) stronger
Track 9) curveball/weaker song
Track 10) filler/weaker song
Track 11) decent song
Track 12) rip heads off to close the album
I like the way my album flows together, so my formula worked for me. Your results may vary.
...minus the fact, of course, that none of them were filler, because you exude awesome.
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
I think that the only way is to go with your instincts ~ whatever they may be. In truth, we assume so much about the way people listen to albums and if they listen to albums. The list that Greg gave was really fascinating because that is moreorless exactly how George Martin hit on sequencing Beatle albums in 1963~4. But at the end of the day, people will take what they're given and then they'll do with it what they will.
The way I see it is if someone buys it, I couldn't care less what they do with it. If they never make it past song 4, then I don't care, as long as they paid.
In a way, this is really kind of where it's at. Once you've put your music out, you have no control over what people do with it. Or how they approach it. Or when they play it. Or in which order. I have a habit of getting to know an album, lopping off the songs I don't like, then rearranging it my preferred order !
Anyway, if someone does buy an album and doesn't listen past song 4, what can you do ? ! Laugh all the way to the bank {or the bedroom if you keep the loot under the mattrass}.
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
By the same token, it is a fascinating insight into the mind of the artist and how they happen to see their work. It's may be a side issue but it's nonetheless interesting. The discussions and debates may rage for years, that so and such regarded "XYZ" as filler to bring the listener down after the bombastic explosion of "WDC", "MHS" and "PVR".
Nakatira
That Norwegian Bastard
I cose the song order myself on my last record, my next record will feature on track so there wont be much discussion.
I just let the ME choose the fadeouts and ect on the first one.
We lined up the tracks so that they would fit an LP, when that time came.
But basicly we got them in the same order we do em live.
For me the most important tracks of an album is the starter and the finish
I just let the ME choose the fadeouts and ect on the first one.
We lined up the tracks so that they would fit an LP, when that time came.
But basicly we got them in the same order we do em live.
For me the most important tracks of an album is the starter and the finish
R
RAMI
Guest
That doesn't surprise me. Greg's a huge Beatles fan. He copies everything they do.
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
On the other hand, even if the openers are shit, being the eternal musical optimist, I'll hang on in there in the hope some stuff I'll like is approaching ! Often has paid dividends.
soundchaser59
Reluctant Commander
But surveys show that 68% of people have no clue how to turn off the "random play" function........so the question is moot before it begins....
R
RAMI
Guest
But surveys show that 68% of people have no clue how to turn off the "random play" function........so the question is moot before it begins....
Unfortunately, surveys also show that 82% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
True, but my private poll indicated that 94.68% don't know how to turn it on.........But surveys show that 68% of people have no clue how to turn off the "random play" function........so the question is moot before it begins....
benherron.rrr
New member
I like it through and through, you know those albums you listen to only the first 4 songs over and over agian, and then one day you get onto the next 8 and you find some real hidden gems you never knew existed
Like with so many other things, the "album" sequence thing has changed over the years.
And a lot of that is because consumer mediums/playback devices have changed.
Prior to CDs/MP3 players there was no "true" skip ability.
Prior to cassettes, there was no "faux" skip ability (fast forward/rewind).
Back in the vinyl days the music was sequenced pretty much the way others here have described as the "George Martin" method. One thing I didn't see mentioned was the importance of the last track on side one; you wanted it to be strong enough to make the listener want to turn the album over. And obviously this would affect the other side one sequencing.
Also, by the early 70's, the mastering engineer was often out of the "sequencing" loop. It was done by A & R or other record company people, often with the assistance of focus groups.
After all, they don't call it the music business for nothing.
As an aside...back in the early 90's I noticed how often tracks 3, 5 and 8 or 9 were often the "strongest" tracks to me...
And a lot of that is because consumer mediums/playback devices have changed.
Prior to CDs/MP3 players there was no "true" skip ability.
Prior to cassettes, there was no "faux" skip ability (fast forward/rewind).
Back in the vinyl days the music was sequenced pretty much the way others here have described as the "George Martin" method. One thing I didn't see mentioned was the importance of the last track on side one; you wanted it to be strong enough to make the listener want to turn the album over. And obviously this would affect the other side one sequencing.
Also, by the early 70's, the mastering engineer was often out of the "sequencing" loop. It was done by A & R or other record company people, often with the assistance of focus groups.
After all, they don't call it the music business for nothing.
As an aside...back in the early 90's I noticed how often tracks 3, 5 and 8 or 9 were often the "strongest" tracks to me...
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
Something happened to me in 1976 that has served as the template of my album listening ever since. I was 13 and for no logical or sensible reason I can fathom, I 'borrowed' a Beatles cassette {"67~70"} from my friend's Dad. I was banned from their house at the time. Anyway, took it home and listened to it that night while I did my physics homework. Like the Jackson 5 three years before and The Pink Floyd three years later, it blew my head off and totally changed my musical headspace. I could not get over the Beats' 1967 output, I couldn't concentrate on my homework and I listened to side one of that cassette all night. Seriously ! I listened to it every day, many times. Washing up and washing the kitchen floor became a pleasure because now I had my own music !
But I couldn't get into side 2. I couldn't believe it was the same band. All that '68/'69/'70 stuff, yuk ! Rubbish ! Pfaffle ! I tried once and that just put me off.
But one bored afternoon, I forced myself to listen to it. And it was so wonderful, song after song after song. I loved that stuff so much that they became the first group that I went on a quest to check out all of their stuff. I mean all of it.
That time with the Beats was the last time I didn't listen to the entirety of an album. I can't imagine not doing so now, even if it's tortuous. Then once I've gauged it, then I can decide what stays and what dies !
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
For those who still buy CDs: first of all, god bless you 
; and second of all, do you really use the shuffle mode when you first bring the CD home? I doubt it. One does not usually put a CD on shuffle unless/until they have, A) checked the album out by listening to the whole thing first, and 2) decided after doing that a few times that it's worth putting the whole thing on shuffle, and that the band is not a one-hit-wonder.
And IMHO, why should one care about those who do shuffle-play their CDs? One cannot program for their randomness, the songs will come out random no matter what order you put them in. But that does not mean that one should ignore those who don't shuffle them. Putting songs in some kind of sensible order only makes sense; it doesn't hurt those how shuffle, it works for those that don't shuffle, and it allows for both artistic decision on the part of the producer/artist, as well as picking songs in an order where they help each other.
As for that last point, sometimes song order is also about putting songs in an order that brings out the best in each song. Modulating the energy from high to low and back again or following a rockin' anthem with a soulful ballad (or not), and deciding to put the song in G after the one in D instead of putting the two songs in D back-to-back, etc. are all ways of selecting song order in a way to make each song sound it's best in a sequential playback.
It's like deciding to enjoy that beer after smoking the medical marijuana, when it tastes so much better and lets you get the benefits of both so much more, instead of getting drunk first before lighting up that rope and winding up just puking on your girlfriend's shoes. The order can make a big difference.
G.
; and second of all, do you really use the shuffle mode when you first bring the CD home? I doubt it. One does not usually put a CD on shuffle unless/until they have, A) checked the album out by listening to the whole thing first, and 2) decided after doing that a few times that it's worth putting the whole thing on shuffle, and that the band is not a one-hit-wonder.And IMHO, why should one care about those who do shuffle-play their CDs? One cannot program for their randomness, the songs will come out random no matter what order you put them in. But that does not mean that one should ignore those who don't shuffle them. Putting songs in some kind of sensible order only makes sense; it doesn't hurt those how shuffle, it works for those that don't shuffle, and it allows for both artistic decision on the part of the producer/artist, as well as picking songs in an order where they help each other.
As for that last point, sometimes song order is also about putting songs in an order that brings out the best in each song. Modulating the energy from high to low and back again or following a rockin' anthem with a soulful ballad (or not), and deciding to put the song in G after the one in D instead of putting the two songs in D back-to-back, etc. are all ways of selecting song order in a way to make each song sound it's best in a sequential playback.
It's like deciding to enjoy that beer after smoking the medical marijuana, when it tastes so much better and lets you get the benefits of both so much more, instead of getting drunk first before lighting up that rope and winding up just puking on your girlfriend's shoes. The order can make a big difference.
G.
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
If I was a spy and I was being tortured, I'd never talk ! You'll get nothing out of me ! Except for one weakness~ the CD shuffle. I hate the very concept.For those who still buy CDs: first of all, god bless you
That's why I record all my CDs onto tape. I stopped listening to music radio because of that randomness. My greatest joy would be a busted shuffle.
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
AHA!!! You just gave yourself up, Snidely Whiplash! If someone ever had to get you to talk, now all they have to do is submit you to endless random shuffle until you break
.Personally, I think random shuffle is fine for some applications, such as MP3 playlists of "singles", or sticking a half dozen Christmas CDs into the player for background music at a Christmas party, and so forth. And sometimes, after I've heard a CD for the three-bazillionth time, mixing up the order can add a bit of a fresh take to it. But for the most part I'm with you; for some albums, the song order has been selected for a reason, and one should think of the album as a single entity in that regard.
But even for those that like shuffle play (which is fine), it's extremely rare to find ones that play a disc in shuffle the first time the listen to it, and rare for them to randomize it until they've already played it several times in regular sequence, and many more times than that just picking out the two or three songs they like the best. Shuffle play of albums (IME) seems to be something that doesn't regularly happen - even among those that like shuffle play - until they've already achieved a certain level of familiarity with it.
G.
Armistice
Son of Yoda
I don't think my CD player has a shuffle function. I just upgraded to a "proper" Cambridge Audio one after many years of crap cheaper ones... if it does, I wouldn't use it anyway.
My iPod does have a shuffle and I use it for playlists
Nothing more annoying though than when I'm iPodding and select an album, hit play and the WRONG song comes on because I've forgotten to turn shuffle off.
I always turn it off, go back and start again. I have to hear them in the order they're meant to be...
My iPod does have a shuffle and I use it for playlists
Nothing more annoying though than when I'm iPodding and select an album, hit play and the WRONG song comes on because I've forgotten to turn shuffle off.
I always turn it off, go back and start again. I have to hear them in the order they're meant to be...