Peak level when mixing down to DAT?

gentlejohn

New member
Just got a DAT machine and have some tapes on order. When final mixing down to stereo would I be right in thinking that I shouldn't be trying to hit 0dB Unity Gain on the DAT levels readout if I then decide at a later date to send the stereo mix away for professional mastering? If this be the case what would be my peak level to hit on the DAT recording levels? Thanks in advance!
 
Mmmmmm....maybe give the masterting guys about 6dB to work with.

Just curious....what made you buy a DAT machine for mixdowns?
About the only thing people use them for these days is doorstops.
 
Just got a DAT machine and have some tapes on order.
WHY? Or are you mixing in analog in a computerless space...? Wouldn't it be easier to run to an interface and bring it to a hard drive with converters that would almost undoubtedly be better than just about anything on a DAT deck...? And without the tape? And the limited number of places these days that actually still have working DAT machines?
When final mixing down to stereo would I be right in thinking that I shouldn't be trying to hit 0dB Unity Gain on the DAT levels readout
It's -0.0dBFS - Not 0dB unity gain.

That aside, long story short, you want to have a decent amount of headroom in those decks. If you're sending a digital signal, it doesn't make a difference - "some" headroom is fine. If you're going analog to it, then the "peak at around -6dBFS" suggestion is pretty solid. THAT said, if you're sending a digital signal, I'd imagine you could send that same signal right back to the computer it came from (leaving the terrible converters out of the equation).
 
I'm working in analogue, no computer at home. I spend enough time using a computer in work - making muzak with a computer just feels like being back at work to me. As for the DAT idea, I got one because I couldn't afford to remortgage in order to buy the 2 track Studer that I really wanted. Thanks for the info.
 
IMO DAT is the worst of both worlds. You don't need a Studer to have a nice 2-track (Half-track) mastering reel-to-reel. Analog tape has outlived DAT. That is, DAT is obsolete while analog tape is still viable and preferred over digital tape formats.

Ask in the Analog Only forum for opinions on good analog half-track open-reel decks.

A full-service mastering facility will still work with 1/4" half-track analog tape. We'll have a DAT on hand as well, but fewer people want to see those come in.
 
Wise words duly noted folks! Thanks for your opinions. PS: I got the DAT machine at a liquidation sale for peanuts! No tapes with it so unsure if it even works (powers ups OK). I've never used one but thought it might be worth a gamble considering what I paid for it (put it this way, the tapes on order were more than what I paid for the machine!) Oh well, from your advice, perhaps DAT is not the way to go after all. I won't put the Studer hunt on hold just yet then! Cheers
 
i could use a cheap $30 DAT machine...Got 3 full CASSETTE releases mixed down to them.....I would like to mix these to CD...Off to Craigs List
 
Funny how the world turns, we used to mix to dat every day and think how great it was and how convenient. I used to aim for a level that may have had 1 or 2 -0.1dB hits in the whole song but was usually maxing between about -6.0 and -2.0, these were the vu dB readings. None of the mastering guys complained about this.

For all the discussion about how bad they were, the albums done on the old dats still sound very good today. I still actually own 3 dat machines but they don't get much use except for getting old recordings off dat masters.

Alan.
 
Funny how the world turns, we used to mix to dat every day and think how great it was and how convenient. I used to aim for a level that may have had 1 or 2 -0.1dB hits in the whole song but was usually maxing between about -6.0 and -2.0, these were the vu dB readings. None of the mastering guys complained about this.

For all the discussion about how bad they were, the albums done on the old dats still sound very good today. I still actually own 3 dat machines but they don't get much use except for getting old recordings off dat masters.

Alan.

No question DAT was something we all welcomed back in the day. Unfortunately as time went on, the industry had a lot of failure with DAT decks and the tape they used. It proved to be less reliable and less of a long-term storage option than analog. But yes, it was an exciting transitional format for those of us who were recording in those days. I would not recommend using one today unless of course you had a library of DAT mixes that needed to be transferred, or like me, you're in the mastering business and you keep one around for the odd time you get a DAT tape in. It's a scary prospect though, because if that tape breaks or stretches, or is worn and deteriorated you could get blamed for losing someone's only mix. And though I've recovered many a bad hard drive, once those 1's and 0's are gone on a digital tape they are truly and forever gone!
 
The last time I recorded to DAT was maybe around 1996-7.....but I still have the DAT machine. I'm using it to fill three spaces on one of my racks until I get some more gear that needs to be racked.
 
I was not saying lets go back to DAT to get some kind of vintage digital sound LOL, but when it came along it certainly made it easy for studios to have a format to mix too. Before dat I was mixing to VHS HiFi video (using the sound track only) 1/4" reels, or even chrome cassettes. I was saying that some of the stuff recorded to DAT sounded very good, especially the high end DAT machine that were around at the time.

I remember when I got my first studio computer and a CD burner (4 x max burn speed external scsi) Oh Joy.

Alan.
 
The only real problem with dat at this point, besides the last generation converters, is the fact that if you don't use it regularly, the mechanism gets gummed up and stops working. I have two dat machines, neither one works anymore because I didn't have a need to turn them on in five years. The mechanism in there is a tiny version of a vcr mechanism, its very fiddly and can be brought to its knees by a spec of dust landing in the wrong place.

Iirc, those machines were calibrated to line level = -12dbfs.
 
The only real problem with dat at this point, besides the last generation converters, is the fact that if you don't use it regularly, the mechanism gets gummed up and stops working. I have two dat machines, neither one works anymore because I didn't have a need to turn them on in five years. The mechanism in there is a tiny version of a vcr mechanism, its very fiddly and can be brought to its knees by a spec of dust landing in the wrong place.

Iirc, those machines were calibrated to line level = -12dbfs.

Yikes. I have a DA30mk1 and a few tapes I've been ignoring..
 
OK, well, DAT aside I do have a laptop which I use for 'work'. Would it be better to mix down to that? (Apologies for my naivety here, I've been hiding under a rock for the longest time where music making is concerned!) PS: My laptop is just that - I have no interface or music software on it - it's the machine I bought from my work. What I'm hoping to do is either:

A) Send my mixes off to get mastered in the correct format & with the correct levels (CDr then?) or ...

B) Learn to master my mixes myself (certainly a cheaper option!) Then ...

C) Sell my CDs at gigs and get some music up on iTunes (I'm registered with CDBaby but, as yet, don't have anything up on there - I'm working on it hence the questions!)

Also regarding mixing down, what about an Alesis MAsterlink? I've only just stumbled across this unit as a possible option. You can make a Red Book CD with one right? Could me more my kind of thing as I'm not that clue'd up when it comes to PCs. Typing emails is about my limit! GREAT forum this by the way!!!!!
 
Get a 2-channel soundcard and then you can dump stereo mixes from your cassette portastudio into your computer.

If you can't create a stereo mix on the portastudio....then you need figure out how you would want to do that, or get a multi-channel soundcard and dump the individual portastudio tracks into your computer and mix them there.

The Masterlink is OK....I guess, if you want to do your mixes to that, just keep in mind that each mix will eat up a CD, so you have no option for tweaking the stereo mixes like you would in the computer, assuming you have a decent DAW application to use.

Based on what you've posted in the Analog Forum....you might want to just get a 1/4" 2-track and do your stereo mixes to that...then send the 1/4" tapes out for mastering as needed, or simply get your mixes as close as you can to what they should sound like, and then skip the mastering. I'm just not sure how much mastering you will need coming off a cassette portastudio...???
 
OK, after much deliberation this end I'm gonna take a punt on the 'Alesis Masterlink' unit. I've done a fair bit of research and, from what I've read, it's ticking the boxes and will best serve my needs. I'd be very interested to hear opinions from folks who have experience using this very interesting piece of gear. (I'll be mainly using it to capture analogue stereo mixes through its analogue inputs I'd imagine - I'll keep you penned.)
 
Used to use 'em -- Still have (at least) one... Not a bad unit. THAT SAID -- It really is a PITA as far as a mixdown deck is concerned and now there are options - Inexpensive options - that aren't nearly as much of a pain to work with.

Something like this perhaps -- Product: DR-100MKII | TASCAM

I've not used it personally, but that's what I'd be looking for - Simple PCM recorders. Tascam also has their DSD unit for only $1k, which is ridiculous (in a good way).

Denon's DN500R, Tascam's SS-R's... There are an awful lot of "flash" recorders out there that are much simpler to use, most have direct USB connections, etc.
 
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