dgatwood
is out. Leave a message.
FWIW, Thunderbolt supports daisy-chaining multiple displays. So in a few years, when everything has a Thunderbolt port, that limitation of pre-TB laptops won't be all that relevant.
Wich is better USB/Firewire Audio Interface vs PCI/PCIe audio interface?
- Thread starter Liv You
- Start date
FWIW, Thunderbolt supports daisy-chaining multiple displays. So in a few years, when everything has a Thunderbolt port, that limitation of pre-TB laptops won't be all that relevant.
Not going to happen on the vast majority of affordable laptops. FW didn't. Why would they bother with another, expensive protocol when usb 3 is already "here" and does 99% of what folks need and then some.
And, Thunderfart or no the laptops will still be no better at handling any kind of serious audio.
Dave.
wheelema
Boner-obo
Lol @ 'Thunderfart'. And I largely agree when it comes to laptops. Laptops are fragile, constrained by their form factor, unable to be upgraded, and relatively expensive... and thus unsuited for most (not all, just most) serious audio.
PRHunt
I void warranties
The thing with technology in general, is that whatever you are buying is more or less obsolete as soon as you buy it. That is to say, there is always something bigger, better, faster, sexier just around the corner (something like Moore's Law). Information Technology is a great example of this.
I think you have the choice of 1/ waiting - maybe indefinitely - for the Next Big Thing, or 2/ committing and buying from what is currently available and meets your needs. Then, get as much use and longevity from your purchase as you can. I tend to fall in the second category.
I also tend not to be an early adopter , being content to let others do the R&D refinements ahead of me. Future-proofing is probably an exercise in futility in any case.
Anyway, this is how I operate a lot of the time. Your mileage will almost certainly vary.
I think you have the choice of 1/ waiting - maybe indefinitely - for the Next Big Thing, or 2/ committing and buying from what is currently available and meets your needs. Then, get as much use and longevity from your purchase as you can. I tend to fall in the second category.
I also tend not to be an early adopter , being content to let others do the R&D refinements ahead of me. Future-proofing is probably an exercise in futility in any case.
Anyway, this is how I operate a lot of the time. Your mileage will almost certainly vary.
PRHunt
I void warranties
As an alternative interface for audio devices, Ethernet may be a way forward. Check the Horus interface from Merging Technologies Merging Technologies. Look here for another overview: Merging Technologies : Horus Networked Audio Interface
Imagine if connecting an audio interface was no more complex that plugging in an JR45 connector at each end?
The Horus is, of course, a flagship product and extravagantly expensive at around $10000 to $15000 (I think). But will other manufacturers follow the lead? Wouldn't it be fairly trivial for manufacturers to embed a micro-controller and ethernet interface into a new audio interface product line? The Audio over IP protocol, Ravenna (as used in the Horus), is open source.
I wonder...
Imagine if connecting an audio interface was no more complex that plugging in an JR45 connector at each end?
The Horus is, of course, a flagship product and extravagantly expensive at around $10000 to $15000 (I think). But will other manufacturers follow the lead? Wouldn't it be fairly trivial for manufacturers to embed a micro-controller and ethernet interface into a new audio interface product line? The Audio over IP protocol, Ravenna (as used in the Horus), is open source.
I wonder...
Been around a while...Hear Technologies Hear Back
Yes, that is a simpler form but it is 24 bits. Most modern computers have Gbit ethernet ports now and IIRC that can carry 64 24 bit channels both ways at 96kHz?
Dare we say that the only thing holding back affordable ethernet AIs is vested interests?
Dave.
Mo Facta
Farts of Nature
Currently the best AoE (Audio over Ethernet) technology is Dante, IMO. It is non-proprietary so it can use off-the-shelf routers and switches, and has some of the lowest latency in the business coming in at something crazy like 150 uS (microseconds) for 100Mbit/sec and as low as 83.3 uS over Gigabit.
To me, it would be great to start seeing interfaces with Dante ports so you can simply load the virtual soundcard software on your PC/laptop, connect one CAT5 and start recording. The stability of AoE systems is being proven time and time again as the live sound arena has been using the technology for years at major events worldwide. Right now you can buy Dante expansion cards for almost all major digital mixers, making it possible to make 48 channel recordings with one simple connection.
Cheers
To me, it would be great to start seeing interfaces with Dante ports so you can simply load the virtual soundcard software on your PC/laptop, connect one CAT5 and start recording. The stability of AoE systems is being proven time and time again as the live sound arena has been using the technology for years at major events worldwide. Right now you can buy Dante expansion cards for almost all major digital mixers, making it possible to make 48 channel recordings with one simple connection.
Cheers
I suppose one slight percieved problem with ethernet is that it does not, as standard, deliver any DC?Currently the best AoE (Audio over Ethernet) technology is Dante, IMO. It is non-proprietary so it can use off-the-shelf routers and switches, and has some of the lowest latency in the business coming in at something crazy like 150 uS (microseconds) for 100Mbit/sec and as low as 83.3 uS over Gigabit.
To me, it would be great to start seeing interfaces with Dante ports so you can simply load the virtual soundcard software on your PC/laptop, connect one CAT5 and start recording. The stability of AoE systems is being proven time and time again as the live sound arena has been using the technology for years at major events worldwide. Right now you can buy Dante expansion cards for almost all major digital mixers, making it possible to make 48 channel recordings with one simple connection.
Cheers
But then there are plenty of usb AIs that don't run on bus power or need external power for full operational headroom. And of course you would be VERY lucky to find Fussywire power on a laptop!
I must bone up on Powerover Ethernet again. I think it is 13W per pair? Useful!
It would seem that 25watts can be "injected", enough to run quite a complex system. The power suppplies seem to run out at about 50quid.
Dave.
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wheelema
Boner-obo
No question we'll see niche technologies trying to find a marketplace. I don't know what challenges broadcasters face, what topologies or protocols are going to appeal to a large studio. The biggest install I've worked with is a medium sized church and that was plenty confusing enough for me. What I do know however is that manufacturers will shave every penny they can, and costs don't just accrue in manufacturing. No one who wants to stay in business is going to offer a warranty when there's more then a very remote chance they may have to honor it, or pay a support person if that money can go to executive compensation. Dimes add up... fast.
B
Beck
Guest
PCI/PCIe is better hands down. Any buss mastering interface will beat USB 2.0 and firewire on many levels. If you have a laptop go with cardbus over USB. It's not simply throughput, but issues with system interference, consistency and reliability.
USB and firewire have become popular for convenience and standardization over performance.
USB and firewire have become popular for convenience and standardization over performance.
dgatwood
is out. Leave a message.
You can't even buy new laptops with CardBus slots anymore. I assume you meant ExpressCard?
B
Beck
Guest
Who said anything about new? But yes, thank you, I did mean Expresscard… or Cardbus if you have an older system, which many do. In fact, if you want one of the best audio interfaces ever made it would be worth downgrading your PC or laptop for compatibility with the Echo Layla20 or Layla24, with either a PCI for desktop or Cardbus for laptop. Of course you can get a Cardbus to Expresscard adapter as well and be happy!
But yes, thank you, I did mean Expresscard… or Cardbus if you have an older system, which many do. In fact, if you want one of the best audio interfaces ever made it would be worth downgrading your PC or laptop for compatibility with the Echo Layla20 or Layla24, with either a PCI for desktop or Cardbus for laptop. Of course you can get a Cardbus to Expresscard adapter as well and be happy!
B
Beck
Guest
Another option… Don’t “upgrade!” The focus of today’s music industry is gear and consumerism, but that’s the manufacturer/vendor perspective of what music is all about. It’s not really what music/recording should be about. Devices don’t necessarily become outdated with the passage of time. Salesmen tell us that our gear is outdated and that its time to upgrade. But if you’ve been making great music with what you have for the last five years or even ten years then the itch to upgrade may be more about social pressure than real advancements in technology. In fact, technology can move backwards due to manufacturers cutting corners to save on costs… and lowering of consumer standards. I’ll always keep a motherboard or two around with standard PCI 2.1 slots so I can use my Echo Laylas. They're 10 years old, but I've not heard anything better.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
I put more stock in buying new guitars and amps than I do in upgrading my DAW software/hardware every 2 years.
That said....this past year I finally moved up from my Samplitude 7 to Samplitude ProX (Sam 12)...so for like the last 6 years or more, I just ignored those silly upgrades that often bring more bugs/glitches than actual new stuff that improves the audio.
I also took the opportunity to buy up a bunch of plugs and some other audio software that I've been holding back on...and then I configured a "new", second DAW tower, but I'm still staying with my PCI-based Layla24 boxes.
There are some nice converters out there for sure....just don't really see a need for changing out 6 Layla boxes with 24 + 24 channels of conversion.
Speaking of PCI....there are external PCI enclosures that will hold a bunch of PCI cards, and then you connect all of that to your more modern computer with one of their more current type of cards, or whatever.
I don't have the info right in front of me...but I'll find it.
It's just a possible solution for down the road that allows you to keep all the PCI stuff and still use it with the latest computer models.
That said....this past year I finally moved up from my Samplitude 7 to Samplitude ProX (Sam 12)...so for like the last 6 years or more, I just ignored those silly upgrades that often bring more bugs/glitches than actual new stuff that improves the audio.
I also took the opportunity to buy up a bunch of plugs and some other audio software that I've been holding back on...and then I configured a "new", second DAW tower, but I'm still staying with my PCI-based Layla24 boxes.
There are some nice converters out there for sure....just don't really see a need for changing out 6 Layla boxes with 24 + 24 channels of conversion.
Speaking of PCI....there are external PCI enclosures that will hold a bunch of PCI cards, and then you connect all of that to your more modern computer with one of their more current type of cards, or whatever.
I don't have the info right in front of me...but I'll find it.
It's just a possible solution for down the road that allows you to keep all the PCI stuff and still use it with the latest computer models.
B
Beck
Guest
Yep, that's another good option to give perfectly good older gear new life. There's also in-slot PCIe to PCI adapters. I've never used them though. One of my all-time favorite DAW MOBOs is the Asus P3B-F REV 1.04. I still have one running in the studio with a Pentium Tualatin processor. It's one of the most stable and reliable MOBO's I've ever used for audio/video.