Soon-To-Be Digital Convert.

bluebrew

New member
This is a very cool message board. I just whiled away three hours going through random threads and posts - what a knowledge base there is in here! Being brand spankin' new to this forum and to digital recording, I'll just pose my question. It's pretty general:

What equipment do I want to start out in digital recording?

I'll elaborate. I've been involved in music - stage and studio - for 25 years. I am no sound engineer; just a player, sometimes composer, and collaborator. I was always very comfortable in the analog recording environment, although when it came to important projects, it was always a pro engineer behind the controls. My home setups consisted at various times of 4-track cassette, 8-track reel-to-reel, or 1/2" 16. I always managed to cobble something together to get decent demo tracks to tape in the comfort of my own home, and was able to construct functional full-arrangement demos of instrumentally complex material. Of course, the mix quality and perfection of the product weren't what mattered...only the ability to demo the material for other players.

A friend and I had been working to rough out structural tracks to a somewhat ambitious studio project before I was relocated with work three years ago. It was all going to 24-track 1" in a popular local studio. My work move temporarily pulled the plug on the project. We are now getting back into it, but the studio has since gone digital! The engineer told me not to worry, and that we would still be able to burn the original roughs to disc for audio reference and demo purposes. He also said he could digitize everything for preservation (the old reels have been sitting idle and magnetically degrading since I left town). OK, great! But now, I guess I need to think about putting something together so I can work with these old tracks in the digital domain, particularly since that studio is now 200 miles away instead of 30. I barely know where to begin.

I have gone through scores of material on the Internet, casually investigated what seems like endless pieces of equipment and software packages, and all it's done is confuse me. I finally wandered into a Guitar Center one day just to see what the guy behind the counter had to say about it all. He wanted to sell me a Firepod and some or another Cakewalk software - I don't have the computer built yet, although I have a tech junkie friend here at work who builds about 70 systems per year and reccomended a setup for my application. Actually, he sketched out three potential packages - sort of the Yugo, Lexus, and Rolls Royce scenario. I certainly trust his judgment in the matter, but it's tough to know how to proceed having so little working knowledge of the digital recording subject.

As far as tracking, my requirements call for 24 tracks minimum, although a lot of overdubs have been performed as we've pieced this current project together and we'll probably continue in this format through its completion. I can't see the need for any more than enough simultaneous inputs to handle a drum kit, or a five-piece horn section. Seems like 8 would be more than adequate. But Cubase versus Pro Tools versus Cakewalk...which interface to use, sound card choices, which other pieces of outboard gear to use...cripes! I could sit and juggle options for the rest of my life and never get anything done.

I'm a relic of analog technology and I'm always late to the show when times change. I'm running up as we speak with my clean plate, hoping to grab an appetizer before the main course, while you folks are already picking your teeth and burping up dessert. That's how far in the dust I am with digital recording technology.

I need to set up a functional home project studio to work with the material I currently have (up to 20 simultaneous tracks at the moment). I don't worry about mixing and mastering because I'd farm that out to somebody who knows what they're doing. Basically, I need the capacity to finish tracking this project and (ideally) the ability to send new tracks back to the original studio where my guitarist can access everything and add to it. May I impose on some of you folks for suggestions on a suitable setup that meets these "general" criteria? Or, alternatively, perhaps some of you could enlighten me on the hardware and software setups you're currently using in your own project studios.

I'm a blank slate, so feel free to write on it anything you feel is worth knowing. Thanks in advance for your help.
 
You're going to get a different answer from every user on here. I'll tell you what I've done for the last 5 years with no complaints.

I track everything myself. The most inputs I ever need is 8 when I track drums. I run 8 mics into a Tascam TM-D1000, connected to my computer via an RME HDSP 9652 card, where I record into Logic 5.5. I use the Tascam to monitor through NS-10M's

So, you'll need a computer with a capable soundcard/interface to convert the signal from analog to digital .You'll need software to track and mix. Everyone's going to recommend Reaper, so I'll save them the time. You'll need decent monitors, too.

You'll also need the gear to track with, i.e. mics, preamps, etc, if necessary.

I'm forgetting stuff, but I'm half drunk.
 
Thanks very much. I'm going to have a look at the prodcuts you just mentioned and see what's what. I will undoubtedly have more questions shortly!
 
You're going to get a different answer from every user on here. I'll tell you what I've done for the last 5 years with no complaints.QUOTE]

This is very true. The good news is that there is a lot of stuff on the market that fits your criteria. The best general advice I can give is to stay away from USB interfaces for more than 2 simultaneous tracks.

I personally use an Echo Layla 24/96 interface with a Presonus Digimax LT going into the Layla via Adat.

Good luck. Do lots of research. There's a lot out there.
 
I've been using a Delta 1010 with a Soundcraft Spirit E12 for the past 4 years and my only complaint is that one channel on the Soundcraft gave out when an idiot ex-band member decided to repeatedly connect and disconnect a mic to it while phantom power was on. For a low-price solution, it has worked great for me. I used to run it with Cubase but am moving to Reaper and haven't had any problems so far. You can pick up a Delta 1010 for under $400 now, and they seem to last forever.
 
This is great! I'm taking a look at each component and piece of software you guys are mentioning to get a picture of what my initial setup may entail.

Now, I'm sure this question is going to sound unbelievably stupid, but I'm working with a beginner's handicap here. I see references to two software packages: Logic 5.5 once and Reaper twice (which is apparently shareware). As I look at a sample Reaper screen, I see a virtual console and some tracking waveform closeups. I assume that this package is capable of performing mix functions. Does Logic 5.5 not do all of this as well, or is there something I'm missing regarding the need for multiple software applications?

I don't even know if I said that very well. I guess I got the idea originally that a single software package, properly selected, would have about everything that one guy could need for recording, mixing, editing and even effects. And remember, I'm taking what tiny bit I think I know from one lone fellow at the Guitar Center. As I have practically no need (that I'm aware of) for MIDI compatibility or anything complex - my current project's instrumentation is half electric and half acoustic with nary a MIDI cable involved - could this have been the basis for the Cakewalk reccomendation I received?

Please structure my sanity for me! Recording, to me, still means two big reels of tape spinning in tandem. It's a mental mold I have to break, but it's hard to achieve! :eek:
 
Reaper is very popular right now. It seems to be a great value.

I also do not use midi, so I decided to keep my software as simple and uncluttered as possible. I use Cakewalk Guitar Tracks Pro 3, and it handles basic tracking and mixing functions quite well. There are also some decent effects plug-ins included. For someone accustomed to using an analog mixer it is an intuitive program to use. And at the same time it includes the precision editing capabilities of the digital world.
 
The impression I get, then, is that Cakewalk, Reaper, Logic 5.5 (and assumedly all the other software packages like Cubase and Pro Tools) are all fully functional mix/edit software environments and that different folks just pick the one or few that they like best for different aspects of the recording and production process?

I also took a look at the Echo website to review the Layla interface that was suggested above. Again, please overlook my ignorance as I try to schematize all these bits and pieces. This Layla is simply an audio to PC interface similar to a Firepod, correct? I also noted on their website that it comes bundled with yet another brand of mix/edit software.

So, this leads to my newest question. Let's say I hypothetically put together a setup with this Layla interface and use Cakewalk's recording software. I put together a piece of a project. Then, I burn all the digital data to a CD and take it back to Michigan where my old engineer is running Pro Tools. Does this lead to compatibility problems, or will he be easily able to open and work with whatever I did through different software?

I suppose the answer to that question will be of great consequence to me. Should have just asked it that way first, but that's the problem when you're looking for answers without knowing all the right questions...
 
There are some compatibility problems no matter what, but most apps have a consolidate feature so you can send at least the wavefiles back and forth.

REAPER is trying to extend its hands in friendship for TRUE compatibility, as you will see REAPER opens and saves samplitude and Vegas EDL's, hopefully more soon. SONAR and Nuendo can do OMF which is handy as well

If you want an easy way to test the waters for zero money go download REAPER, the newest version should be out in the next few minutes, 1.879

Click the chat link in my sig and you will be taken to live chat where people will be around to help you set up reaper and get going
 
The impression I get, then, is that Cakewalk, Reaper, Logic 5.5 (and assumedly all the other software packages like Cubase and Pro Tools) are all fully functional mix/edit software environments and that different folks just pick the one or few that they like best for different aspects of the recording and production process?

In earlier times there were a lot of differences in the capabilities of various software packages. Nowadays they all offer pretty much the same set of features for tracking, editing, arranging and mixing. In your position I would download and trial Reaper and see if it does what you need to do. If you're not sure about it try one of the other packages

I also took a look at the Echo website to review the Layla interface that was suggested above. Again, please overlook my ignorance as I try to schematize all these bits and pieces. This Layla is simply an audio to PC interface similar to a Firepod, correct? I also noted on their website that it comes bundled with yet another brand of mix/edit software.

The Layla is similar to the Firepod in that it provides multiple inputs & outputs, but the Firepod also includes 8 preamps. The nice thing about the Firepod is that the one box holds everything, and it connects via firewire so you can plug it into a laptop if you need to. Most hardware interfaces come bundled with LE versions of software, which can be another way to get started.

So, this leads to my newest question. Let's say I hypothetically put together a setup with this Layla interface and use Cakewalk's recording software. I put together a piece of a project. Then, I burn all the digital data to a CD and take it back to Michigan where my old engineer is running Pro Tools. Does this lead to compatibility problems, or will he be easily able to open and work with whatever I did through different software?

Any of those s/w packages will let you burn tracks as wav files which can be imported into any other (PC based) s/w app
 
I'll throw in my 2 cents, I suppose.

From what I gather, you're looking for something to just track in and then export the sound files so that someone else can mix them. You need a maximum of 8 channels. I'll assume that you're not going to get stand alone pre's and you'll need the on board variety of pre's. Depending on your budget, you could go with a Firepod, RME Fireface 800, MOTU 896HD, etc. At this point in your recording "life", I'd recommend the Firepod. It has 8 on board pres, it's pretty solid, and it's firewire. And it's price friendly.

As far as software, Reaper is a great place to get your feet wet. It's free so there's no real feeling of being tied to it if you don't like it. Once you get used to it, you could move on to something else. However, Reaper seems to be talked about quite well. I'm sure that has a lot to do with features vs price, though. Personally, I use Cakewalk Sonar 6 PE. BUT...I wouldn't recommend dumping a lot of money on a software package right off the bat. Go with Reaper and get something else later if you need it.

Additionally, there are plenty of free effect plug-in's to be had out there. You could go over to the KVR forums and look around or you could just Google it.
 
This is all very interesting feedback, and thanks again to everybody. Yes, my notion is basically to be able to save individual tracks to take elsewhere and have an engineer work with them. Portability and compatibility being key. "wav" files on a disc are plenty portable, and it sounds like I wouldn't have to worry much about compatibility if I save tracks in this format.

I do have a pair of 4-channel, rack mount preamps that I used with my 16-track rig years ago. But times have changed, things have probably improved, and so it sounds to me like a nice starting point would be to grab an interface with built-in preamps like the Firepod. Perhaps that's why it was reccomended to me - a nice, all-inclusive package for getting started.

I'm going to head back and check out the links you guys have provided and climb a little higher on the learning curve.

Very much appreciated. Thank you!
 
your rack preamps could be well above the built in preamps of most interfaces. what are they? it sounds like you might have everything you need already except an interface and software. check out the echo layla 3g or audiofire 8 in your searching. if you have a bit more money to work with, look at motu and rme as well. you should know that firewire interfaces have some compatibility issues with some firewire cards. check into that. on the software side, reaper is a killer recording app at any price point. as far as software fx, reaper has some very decent stuff that should keep you happy for a while. it's routing features are unreal and you might appreciate the ninjam plugin that makes online collaboration possible. if you have any hardware effects that you really like, you can make use of those too. good luck.
 
The M-Audio Delta 1010 will also run Pro-Tools "m-powered" software, which would give you compatibility with other pro-tools users if desired.
 
I was away for a little while there, and just now getting back to this. I just read the last post about the Delta 1010 and Pro Tools "m-powered" software compatibility...this was an interesting thing to read. I'm still very much in the dark, even after doing a little research on the whole digital recording subject. However, my engineer in Michigan did finally sit down and do the remixes for my last analog project. He sent the CDs along with a data disk full of files that he says I'll be able to open up and work with when I get a digital setup put together.

His studio is now based on Pro Tools and he's giving me the serious hard sell. I don't know what the difference between Pro Tools and the "m-powered" version actually is, but I take it that the latter will be compatible with the files he digitized for me? If so, maybe omatyslick's last recommendation would be a nice blanket solution for getting started with the material I currently have.

Can somebody clarify for me the difference between the professional version of Pro Tools and the "m-powered" software? Thanks!
 
M-Powered is sort of digital heroin to get you hooked on the real deal, but it works in its own right. Its extremely crippled, track limited, non plugin delay compensating, I/O limited software which in many if not most ways is far behind even free native apps.

PTHD/PTTDM is pretty much the same software, but with hardware DSP which was very important back in the 90's. It allowed slow computers at the time to do a lot of processing in the TDM hardware, which lowered latency, added stability, and in general gave you more oomph to play with. Pretty much irrelevant to many in this day of Dualcore processors and more mature ASIO drivers

Any session you make in M-powered (with the exception of certain plugins which he and you may or may not have, including the OS and plugin version you are using) might open up in your friends PT system...the reverse can sometimes be true as well.

Mostly the compatibility thing is a myth...Much of PT's hardware is not compatible with anything else, nor is the software. Even between PTLS/Mpowered and PTHD the compatibility is strange...do you REALLY want to take the project with supposedly crappy home versions of plugins and have him use those instead of the TDM ones which are supposedly so great?

And good luck taking the project home, loaded with TDM plugs and trying to open it on your RTAS system.

As long as your app has a consolidate feature, you are guranteed to be 100% compatible with his rig.
 
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