Recommendations on a Windows 10 Laptop with Acceptable DPC Latency

haskins02

New member
I am planning to buy a new laptop (in December) for music production (Studio One Pro DAW). It needs to be a Windows 10 laptop and I will use it with a large external monitor. My music production needs and my technical expertise are very modest (mostly creating background tracks of cover tunes for my solo live performances).

I was initially planning to buy the latest Dell XPS 15 (i7-9750H processor, 32GB DDR4-2666MHz, 1 TB SSD). But then I was told by a number of music production folks on another forum (not Home Recording) that there are significant “DPC latency” issues with it and that the Lenovo ThinkPad P52 (i7, P1000, FHD) is the one to get. So I planned to buy that one instead, then found out the P52 is no longer being made (or sold directly by Lenovo) and has been replaced with their new and “improved” P53. So I planned to buy the P53, but no. I then found out from other folks at the same forum that the new P53 is reported to have those darn DPC latency issues. Now I don’t know what to do.

I do not have the time, patience, expertise and budget to build a laptop from scratch. I am a hobbyist. So I am limited to a stock laptop that I can customize during the purchase process online.

Any suggestions? Does anyone use a stock Windows 10 laptop for music production that does not have these DPC latency (or other) issues? Can the exact same model still be purchased today because apparently, as I just found out, newer laptops can be more problematic than the older models they replace.

Thanks!
 
The really bad DPC latency issues were with a specific Dell XPS 15 model (which was the 9570) from what I can tell. And it was really bad, from what I gather.

Dell "promised" that those issues have been fixed in later revisions of the XPS 15.

So I guess it depends on specifically which model you're looking at. I'd still be a little gun-shy though, although given the beating that Dell took over that 9570 fiasco, I'd bet that they're at least trying to avoid DPC issues now. No telling if they're succeeding, but I'd bet that they're trying :)

Dell confirms that the next XPS 15 will not have the DPC latency issues of the XPS 15 9570 - NotebookCheck.net News

Also keep in mind that DPC latency can and will change over time as you add/remove drivers, hardware, and peripheral devices. The people saying that this laptop or that laptop have DPC latency issues are mostly giving anecdotal evidence, and their specific experience depends on what all devices and apps they have installed on their particular computer. So just about any laptop *could* be fine, until the day that you install that one driver or app that misbehaves.
The XPS 15 9570, however, definitely had inherent and chronic problems with it.
 
Thanks Tadpui! Great information and apparently good news. I had my heart set on buying the new 7590 version of the XPS 15. According to that NotebookCheck link, the DPC problems of the 7570 should have been eliminated on the 7590. But I will do further research to find out if third parties have indeed tested for DPC latency on the 7590. Also, thanks for pointing out that DPC latency will change over time with new drivers and hardware.
 
Correction. I got the version numbers mixed up and it’s easy to do. The older version of the Dell XPS 15 with DPC latency issues is “9750”, while the newer version which supposedly fixes the problem is “7590” (a lower number which also inverts the digits of the earlier version – both can cause confusion). What adds even further confusion is that the new XPS 15 7590 comes with the new 9th generation i7-9750H processor. It’s confusing because the number of the processor, 9750, is the same number as the older XPS 15 version with the DPC latency issues!
 
Correction. I got the version numbers mixed up and it’s easy to do. The older version of the Dell XPS 15 with DPC latency issues is “9750”, while the newer version which supposedly fixes the problem is “7590” (a lower number which also inverts the digits of the earlier version – both can cause confusion). What adds even further confusion is that the new XPS 15 7590 comes with the new 9th generation i7-9750H processor. It’s confusing because the number of the processor, 9750, is the same number as the older XPS 15 version with the DPC latency issues!

Ha, it sounds like somebody in the Dell product development center needs to quit drinking! That's an even worse numbering convention than Intel's crazy CPU naming scheme. It's a wonder that any of us know what the heck we're buying :)
 
I did some more research and there are DPC issues reported with the new Dell XPS 15 7590 too. So I am still stuck. Are there no late 2019 mass produced Windows laptops which have solved their DPC latency problems (aside from the problems associated with external device drivers, etc.)? It’s hard to believe.

But maybe I can live with any DPC latency associated the Dell XPS 15 1790 (which I really like in all other respects). I won’t use it for live stage recording. If I experience some audio pops or dropouts once every few hours during recording takes, I would just not use that take during comping. But if it happens every few minutes, then no way. Also does anyone know if DPC latency affects MIDI tracks the same way? For example, when an instrument and sound are assigned to a MIDI track, does the resulting audio channel suffer from the same DPC latency issues? Also, when exporting a completed song to a .wav file, can DPC latency introduce pops, gaps, etc. in the exported file?

Another forum suggested ADK laptops specialized for audio production. But I will be using this laptop for normal home office use most of the time (MS office apps, docking station needs, etc.) and the ADK laptops don’t seem to be configured with that use in mind.

Thanks for any further ideas.
 
Do you have the Distance Trading Regulations or similar legislation at your 10/20?

If so, when you have decided on a laptop (and maybe asked the vendor about latency?) have everything setup, ready to rock. A couple of days of concentrated testing should reveal any problems and if they surface, bang it back at 'em.

Dave.
 
ecc83, I'm not familiar with what you are referring to. Also, I live in the USA and I see you are in the UK. But I will ask Lenovo (or whoever I buy a laptop from) if they offer some sort of return guarantee if they cannot help me fix any DCP latency issues.
 
ecc83, I'm not familiar with what you are referring to. Also, I live in the USA and I see you are in the UK. But I will ask Lenovo (or whoever I buy a laptop from) if they offer some sort of return guarantee if they cannot help me fix any DCP latency issues.

Right, well it might be worth checking (County Hall?) to see if there is any similar protection? Probably state by state?

Our setup (and in Europe I think) is that if you buy anything by mail order you have the option to send it back for a full refund inside two weeks. This is obviously aimed at people who cannot view and try goods as they could in a store and is generally a good thing. However, people being the b'stsds they can be, sometimes they order multiples of the same thing, mainly clothing and choose one item and get a refund on the rest.
This is very bad for the planet, all those van miles and puts reatailers costs up which us fair blokes have to bear. I understand many of the smaller online reatilers have gone broke because of it and there are calls to rationalize the law in some ways.

Of course, if a retailer gives you assurances that a piece of kit will perform in a specific way and it don't, it is effectively not "fit for purpose" or "not as described" and I am sure the consumer law you have protects you from that scenario?

Dave.
 
Right, well it might be worth checking (County Hall?) to see if there is any similar protection? Probably state by state?

Our setup (and in Europe I think) is that if you buy anything by mail order you have the option to send it back for a full refund inside two weeks. This is obviously aimed at people who cannot view and try goods as they could in a store and is generally a good thing. However, people being the b'stsds they can be, sometimes they order multiples of the same thing, mainly clothing and choose one item and get a refund on the rest.
This is very bad for the planet, all those van miles and puts reatailers costs up which us fair blokes have to bear. I understand many of the smaller online reatilers have gone broke because of it and there are calls to rationalize the law in some ways.

Of course, if a retailer gives you assurances that a piece of kit will perform in a specific way and it don't, it is effectively not "fit for purpose" or "not as described" and I am sure the consumer law you have protects you from that scenario?

Dave.
I just got off the phone with Lenovo technical support and their rep said she does not recommend any Lenovo computers for music production. Can you believe it? The rep also said she never heard of DCP latency and thus she could not answer my numerous questions on that subject. I then asked here if there was anyone in technical support or anyone at Lenovo who was knowledgeable about DCP latency and therefore could answer my questions. She said no. Needless to say, I was very disappointed.

I simply don’t know to do at this point.
 
I just got off the phone with Lenovo technical support and their rep said she does not recommend any Lenovo computers for music production. Can you believe it? The rep also said she never heard of DCP latency and thus she could not answer my numerous questions on that subject. I then asked here if there was anyone in technical support or anyone at Lenovo who was knowledgeable about DCP latency and therefore could answer my questions. She said no. Needless to say, I was very disappointed.

I simply don’t know to do at this point.

I find it quite astounding that anyone working in computer "technical support" has not heard of DCP Latency!

I am NO computer guru but am of a technical bent and have been infesting audio forums for over ten years. I have also built desktop that have run various DAW softwares and indeed, my sone has a modest i5 Lenovo W10 laptop that runs Samplitude Pro X 3 perfectly well, though his demands are modest.

So, AFAIK there is no such thing as a "computer unsuitable for music production" it is just a matter of setup and scale. Ten years ago people were doing amazing things with Pentium 4s.

Now Home Recording is a splendid music forum but so is our British soundonsound.com and they have the practically resident Peter Kaine, leading light of Scan computers who gives unstintingly of his time. I strongly suggest you take your problems there..NOT deserting HR of course!

Dave.
 
I think I have decided to bite the bullet, avoid the the plaguing DPC latency problems, complexities and uncertainties with Windows 10 laptops, and buy a MacBook Pro with Logic Pro, both supported by Apple Customer support.
 
I don't find it surprising that Lenovo's tech support isn't up on DCP Latency. Audio users are probably less that .01% of the purchasers of computers. It might be important to us, but in the overall scheme of things, unless it disrupts things like internet, Office suites, and streaming video, its not going to cause issues. With current streaming video, there is enough buffering to overcome any issues.

I have an Asus laptop with an modest I3 and 4 gigs, and I can do 3 or 4 hours of video capture without any problems at all. Running Latency Monitor says that there's no way it would work for audio. I can set the buffers high and do mixing in Reaper, but occasionally I still get a stutter.

Conversely, on my Lenovo I5 desktop, I was just mixing 18 tracks in Reaper with at least 2 plugins on each channel, using 64 sample buffers at 96K and had no issues. Latency maxed out at something like 250us over a minute. Its not maxed out, overclocked or anything special. Just an off the shelf I5 with 12GB memory and one 1TB hard drive. No SSD, networking enabled and Virus protection running.
 
I use an old Lenovo t410 with Reaper. It’s an i5 at 2.26ghz. I can run as many as 20 tracks with effects before I get any issues.
 
I use an old Lenovo t410 with Reaper. It’s an i5 at 2.26ghz. I can run as many as 20 tracks with effects before I get any issues.

Those old Lenovos have a great reputation.

A good alternative to a Macbook Pro would probably be a Dell Precision - I found them more solid than the XPS range in my old job and I have an old Precision M4600 which works faultlessly for 32 track live recording (but I keep the latency high to be on the safe side). However, I would probably have bought an old Lenovo instead of the Dell if I could have found one with a full HD screen at a reasonable price as they are supposed to work better with Firewire interfaces.
 
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