Recent Conversation with Store Sales Rep: Does this make sense to you?

lastrenman365

New member
Quick Background: I am a singer and comedic performer, so I purchase audio equipment for both video and studio audio. I went to a local store recently to upgrade a lavalier mic but had also considered in the back of my mind whether I need better computer audio interface (currently a Focusrite Scarlet 2i4.) For singing I use a Blue Baby Bottle, Podcast, I use an AKG 214, and for video I have the Sennheiser ME2 running through the ew112 system.

What Happened: Went to the store and found a sales guy who seemed knowledgeable and I told him I wanted upgrade my ME2 to a DPA 4088 and he said the following:

  • I should upgrade my audio interface first because Focusrite is the bottom of the barrel when it comes to audio interfaces.
    (I thought it was supposedly pretty good for entry level interfaces)
  • I should get the Universal Audio Apollo Twin, because it has better "leads"
  • When we discussed the difference between the Focusrite and UA Apollo, he kept pressing the amazing plugins. I told him that if I want better plugins, I would just buy better plugins. He said that the UA plugins are run through the audio interface itself, before reaching the computer and therefore more impactful on the sound.
  • I was interested in the MOTU 624 Thunderbolt interface. He did not think that they were as good as the UA Apollos.
  • My field recorder is at the bottom of the barrel of field recorders (Tascam DR-40) and anything would be an upgrade from that, such as the Zoom. (I had never heard that)
  • I asked him if the physical circuitry of the UA was superior to the Scarlet and whether it would make an audible difference without any plugins and he said yes but I should still use the plugins.

I told him I would try it but if I didn't hear a difference, I was going to return it. He said he understood but was confident I would like it. Thus far, I cannot hear much of a difference but have to play around with it more.

Every single possible plugin for the UA interface is listed when I go to add one to the channel strip, but I can only use 5 of them unless I pay for them. The cost for all of these plugins is $4000. I have to now go through an enormous list of plugins in order to find the 5 that came with this thing.

The sale guy said he does live sound engineering and works at the store for extra $. The store is in NYC, so I assumed he was relatively legit and seemed very sure of what he was saying. Did he provide useful info or was it all bs?
 
Pretty good salesman. He probably got a commission for having you walk out the door with that stuff, whether you return it or not.

Unless you’ve got a gain problem with the Focusrite you shouldn’t hear anything IMO. Plugin architecture that has them in the interface may reduce latency if you record with them on normally. And different plugins sound different. Better depends on your ears.

Did they actually have what you went in to buy?

My $.02
 
Are you happy with your existing interface? Does it provide you with the quality and noise performance you need? If it does, then leave it alone and buy the new mic and take the benefits from the mic. I doubt that with the kind of levels you'll get from it, absolute noise free gain is important at all. We had a few of these headsets on a show this Christmas with the rest on DPA omnis, and our Sound 2 spent quite a while maintaining the distance from the mouth. The performers would always do little tweaks for comfort, and the design of the overlapping boom meant the sound would change due to the proximity effect. It did us get a little extra gain, but they were too easy to mess up. The 'tweaking' performers were so much better on the omnis.

Do you have different adaptors - I guess XLR in the studio, but do you use cable for your live stuff or radio packs? Your Scarlett 2i2 is not the most amazing product, but perfectly good enough in my view with high output mics like these.
 
The salesman was being disingenuous, and maybe had a particular interest in pushing the UA.

There's nothing wrong with Focusrite. In fact just about any contemporary interface will be satisfactory.

Plugs being being 'more impactful on the sound' because they're applied 'before reaching the computer'? Well, maybe. Maybe not. But in any case, once you've messed with the sound before it gets into the computer, you can't undo it. And I prefer to modify and manipulate sound after it's in the computer, so I can undo it if I screw it up.

Here's a comparison of Tascam and Zoom hand-held recorders. They're pretty much the same:

https://www.sam-mallery.com/2013/02/tascam-dr-40-vs-zoom-h4n/

I have a feeling his commission was talking louder than the the truth.
 
I'm a big fan of the UA Apollo. The plugs are very good. The Apollo can run the plugs before going to the DAW. It has one unique feature in that some plugs can make real adjustments to the mic pre's gain and impedance which helps to better emulate some classic consoles. The mic pre's are the same circuitry used in one of their standalone mic pres. Can't remember which one. The Apollo's rock.

UA gives a generous bundle of plugs these days. I had to purchase most of mine and it can get expensive. I bought them onsey-twosey over the years, as well as got some freebies from them.

However, there is no reason move away from the focusrite. I also have the 2i2 and I think the audio is just as good as any other moderately priced unit out there. The only reason to consider a different model is if you need more inputs for what you're doing. Sounds like the salesman was pushing for a better profit margin. Their job is to make money for the store.
 
I record in my basement and have 2 rooms- the main basement area and then a small office type room that I treated with Auralex bass traps and wall treatment. My video show is a Conan type show where I do a monolog and other little gimmicky things, and I use a the lav for that. I record it in the main basement which is not treated so the room can be echoey. What started all of this was I bought a Sennheiser MKH 416 and returned it because it was too echoey for the reasons I just mentioned. The treated room has pretty excellent sound with the Focusrite. The ME2 lav sounds pretty good but it can sometimes rub on my clothes so picks up unwanted rustle and is also still a little echoey. I thought the DPA would be good since it is a cardioid.

As for the Focusrite- I swing for the fences and assume my work will be a huge success so I go for highest quality sound that I can afford. The problem is that you can only buy so much sound quality and the room treatment has made the biggest difference so I need to be weary of buying unnecessary things.
 
I would be careful with MOTU's new generation of AVB interfaces as they have a number of problems. I tried one of their interfaces out and had nothing but trouble within Protools it was just hell, so back to the dealer. that's going back mid 2017. not like motu were many years back with the PCIE 24io systems etc.

Salesmen are always going to push you to UAD interfaces as there's a commission. As much as I like their hardware, the plugis are a swindle. Have you seen the price for their Ultimate 7 bundle, that's just the software alone, think it was about £7,000. pricy eh?

Focusrite are decent interfaces, quite smooth, bit of a British sound to them for the pre's.

What ever you feel fits you best, will help you achieve what you want. If you find it's not working for some reason, sit down, draw up a lost of what you need / want, investigate your options and see what's there. forums like this can be treasure troves when it comes to good information and folk who will help you. I hope that I may be one of those to do just that for anyone in due time. I'm new here as of today, but If I can help, I'll do my best.
 
I agree with all the other opinions, bucking for bucks. The UA are superb interfaces but, as you found, virtually impossible to tell apart from the Focusrite or indeed, most AIs in that price bracket.

DPA mics are very, very well thought of in the recording, PA and broadcasting industry.

Last thought: If I were in the situation of seriously upgrading my AI setup there is only one way I would jump. RME. I would not be expecting an audible improvement over the present incumbent, an NI KA6 (and a sometimes 8i6) although there would be a "paper spec' improvement. No, it is the in house design, the drivers and the virtually forever support that would cut it for me.

Dave.
 

"They’re too bulky to slip into a pocket, unless you’re wearing cargo shorts, which isn’t an issue if you live in North America, because you’re likely wearing them as you read this. If you live in France, these recorders will definitely not fit into your pants."

I feel personally attacked by this relatable content.

I have a DR-1 and have used a Zoom occasionally. Personally, I think the DR's more intuitive interface is one of the biggest selling points.

When we discussed the difference between the Focusrite and UA Apollo, he kept pressing the amazing plugins. I told him that if I want better plugins, I would just buy better plugins. He said that the UA plugins are run through the audio interface itself, before reaching the computer and therefore more impactful on the sound.
And if you wanted outboard gear, you'd build a rack!

kiethrogers said:
Pretty good salesman. He probably got a commission for having you walk out the door with that stuff, whether you return it or not.
Maybe. That depends on store policy. I used to be in a band with a Sam Ash employee, and he didn't get commission on these "Nashville rentals".
 
In my show reports, one member of the cast was very much into designer stubble and almost every day sound would complain about the rustling - which was his bristles rubbing on the mic!
 
Interesting title. Kinda contradictory.

First there's "conversation with a sales rep" -- yes had many.
Then there's "does this make sense?" -- often not.

In my experience, this is nothing personal or problematic, this is just a more or less typical conversation with many similar reps.
After all, when all you got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. You were asking for vise grips... silly boy.

P5
 
The salesman was being disingenuous, and maybe had a particular interest in pushing the UA.

You are far too Kind Zed ...the salesman was an evil tool....In 2019 I can't really think of any major brands entry level interface that isn't adequate for what the OP is doing...Digital audio is amazingly clean and the "specs" that get touted between x,y and z isn't even audibly possible to be recognized by the human ear.. They're evil I tell! If I had Monty's rake I'd beat em into unconsciousness with it and then drag them down to the town hall and tar n feather em and then kick em in the shins...Evil I tell ya!
 
Salesmen will be salesmen. You really have to know the answer to your question before going into the store, to be sure you get the correct answer. That seems harsh, but it's necessary in some stores. They are in business for the profit, not the information. Any answers you get will most likely steer you in the direction of their latest expensive gadget they get commission on.

I remember, years and years ago, I went into a music store to find a drum machine. That was back when they were just starting to sound like real drums (well, except for the cymbals). Anyway, the salesman saw me coming, because I wasn't really prepared to buy as much as I was just looking at options. Being a young kid with cash in hand, I was easy prey, though.

He showed me this unit that was really nice. Sounded nice, could be played with fingers, and even had a sequencer to record tracks and then merge those tracks into songs. Yes, it was pretty new, for the time. It was solidly made, metal case and pretty heavy, which should tell you just how long ago this was.

Anyway, I bought the box and later found out he had lied to me. I was SHOCKED (capitalized for humor). There were stereo outputs, which were fine for my needs, but one of the things he had pushed were the slight perforations in the back where he said individual outputs were to be added, in the near future. He said he would contact me, when the time came and I could take the unit back and he would send it in for the addition when it was available. I bit on that.

Those perforations on the back were indeed for individual outputs for each drum sound, but not for the unit I bought. They used the same box for the more expensive unit that came with individual outs. Oh, and that unit came with the stereo outs, too.

I was slightly pissed, but only that he had fed me such a line and he had actually lied to a customer. I never went back to the store, but I really rarely ever go into a music store these days. I hate used car salesmen and that's the feeling I get, when I go into a music store, too. It's the same atmosphere.

I know they are just doing a job, but it just gives me a sick feeling to go into a place like that with a limited amount of money and have them try to get me to spend more. Such is life, I guess.

Your particular salesman sounded too slick for my temperament. He might have known his stuff but once you get something that works, you don't want someone coming along telling you it's bottom of the barrel quality. I think he might be better self served to work on people who are just starting out with nothing and needs a whole setup. Then, he can go into his spiel and sound like the Mr. Wonderful he thinks he is and go home with that big commission ticket.

That unit you took home will sound very nice, I'm sure. The problem is, the unit you have also sounds very nice. To the human ear, there's really no distinguishable difference. Sure, the in the box plugins would help, but you yourself found something you didn't like with that. Nothing comes for free. There's always a price.

Sometimes the price is in the fine print. Salesmen and loan officers will never tell you about the fine print. We sometimes wonder how they sleep at night. I'm sure they sleep just fine.
 
Being a young kid with cash in hand, I was easy prey, though.

I believe there's an old proverb like this:

When a man with money meets a man with experience, in short time the man experience will have the money and the man with the money will then have experience.

L.
 
The clue is on the name - SALESmen. The best you get is a knowledgeable one with morals. The worst a stupid one with no morals. Some like to learn as much as they can and then give advice based on that - but, their aim is to get you to buy the product that works best for you and them. This means perhaps 'guiding' you to a product that does more than you need, or is perhaps full of unwanted gadgets because that makes the most money for the firm, and then of course, them. So they'll find what you want, listen to your needs then dangle carrots. "You don't really need more than a stereo output, at the moment - mind you I guess the first time you want to send something to an external gizmo, like that old really nice reverb you mentioned you had, you might kick yourself. Still, probably not worth the extra $60. Knowing that for $60 you would find it a good extra feature. They don't sell features, they sell benefits. The ones with morals do it truthfully and honestly, but pointing these out isn't a crime - it's good salesmanship. Telling you extra facilities will be able to be fitted in the future based on guesswork is bad salesmanship at best, and a con at the worst. Upselling is NOT a trick, it's a skill. Not knowing what you are selling should be a crime, however. Car salesmen are the best. Many are very honest and have morals, but showing you the car for a grand more than you have and saying what a shame it is you can't have the X and the Y, just makes you want it more. Then they offer the finance deal and you really, really want it.
 
Seems you should be able to tell quickly if there is a difference in audio interfaces by recording some tracks.
Focusrite 2i4 vs UA Apollo Twin....no plugins.
Ive compared numerous interfaces and couldn't hear much of a difference between any of them when just tracking a clean sound.


Then if you want to try "real time" plugins that's another choice, not really considered an upgrade for everyone. It doesn't read like you are interested in 4000 plugins. ...and maybe not even 5. Do you use plugins with your 2i4?
A lot of the cost of the Apollo is the plug-ins so if you don't need them, why buy it?

Ive got a interface w/ realtime plugins, but I can record a dry signal too insitu, with the "colored" sounds.

I wouldn't buy the Apollo if you don't want or need the plug-in world. Instead buy a really really nice Lava lamp.
 
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