Monitor volumes.

BroKen_H

BroKen_H

Re-member
Okay, have been having problems with my new monitors' (M-Audio M3-8s) massive volume. I've got them dialed down to 3 clicks above OFF on the back and they are still overbearing when the mains in Reason are pumped up. Tried all sorts of solutions, but no matter what I do, I can't get away from the fact that compressors and limiters react differently when the mains are down, and when they're up. My stuff comes out sounding really over compressed as a result.

So I tried limiting the output. By placing a mixer between the mains out and the interface and running each set of monitors via a separate aux bus (virtually) I can control the volume to my two sets of monitors and listen to one, the other or both. But this somehow limits the volume on my renders, leaving them sounding pushed and still quiet.

So I thought about the Big Knob or the Behringer equivalent (CONTROL1USB) and although, I could afford them monetarily, I really value my desk space and would like a rack mount version. Unfortunately the only ones I can find are from Dangerous Music and completely out of my range.

Can a spitting mixer do the task I need to do? Run into the main ins from the output on the AI and run through sets of channels on the mixer to the different sets of monitors. Specifically THIS DEVICE. If not, does anyone know of a reasonably priced control room setup that is rackmount?

Much appreciate the help!
 
Why would you not take the monitor outputs of your interface to inputs on the mixer, and then use the main or monitor outputs on the mixer for your two sets of speakers?
 
The mixer is virtual (in Reason)...and I am doing what you're saying, just with two aux busses, but as I said, the renders tend to come out WAY too quiet.
 
A cheap headphone amp will do it. I use a Behringer with 8 channels. You probably don't need that many, but a couple extra holes is always nice. ;)
 
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BroKen_H said:
Okay, have been having problems with my new monitors' (M-Audio M3-8s) massive volume. I've got them dialed down to 3 clicks above OFF on the back and they are still overbearing when the mains in Reason are pumped up.
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The monitors appear to be made to handle -10dBV signal while your interface puts out +4dBu: "Input sensitivity: 85 mV pink noise input produces 90 dBA output SPL at 1 meter with volume control at maximum". I think that translates to 340 mV (ecc83, ashcat_lt...?) for 90dBA SPL with the volume at the 0 mark. By the time you account for a +4dBU input signal level, bring it down to 83dBA SPL, account for higher levels of a mastered track and account for some listening level below 83dBA SPL you might need substantially more than the 30dB of attenuation available on the volume control.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
I would rather have a passive TC Electronics device rather than an active Behringer device in my monitoring path.
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Sure but...
1)
Would work for the one set of speakers, but only saves me $10 over the splitter. Just want to be sure the idea of a splitter works for the application I'm doing. For $100, I'm tempted to just pull the trigger.
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B) I didn't actually recommend the Behringer unit itself, just a decent headphone amp. Frankly, for the OP, I'd probably look for one of those bundle deals that MF has all the time where you get a headphone amp and a couple pairs of headphones.

III) It works just fine. In fact, it works really well in my situation. I can run either of my machines to either of my two sets of monitors - with separate control of the sub level for the big'uns - plus run a pair of passive surface transducers from dedicated outputs from the recording machine and still have room for 4 pair of headphones. There is not enough noise, distortion, or coloration for me to tell the difference. Some of the switches are iffy, but you just jiggle it a little bit...


I mean, the six resistors he'd need to make a pair of balanced pads would be the cheapest and passivest solution by far, but...
 
Okay, so my choices so far: 2) a device for almost the same price that will do half the job and still take up my desktop space (although not much); X) use a completely inferior product (because it's Behringer) that actually does what I want. Or possibly, since Ash actually got me thinking about looking at headphone amps, go with an ART HeadAmp6Pro (which actually has the capability to do what I want and have two extra headphone outs left over) for double the $$.

Funny, when I Google rackmount headphone amp, the Ultralink Pro comes up.

But honestly, I believe that I've found out for myself that the splitter (Ultralink Pro) will actually do the job quite nicely. I was just looking for i) a rackmount system that was cheap and could be used for the purpose, or XLV) an answer to the "will this work?" bit.

Thanks for all the help! :D

Funny that no one makes an inexpensive unit that takes one stereo input and directs it through two or three volume controls to control different near/mid field speakers...Maybe a niche market there.
 
BroKen_H said:
Or possibly, since Ash actually got me thinking about looking at headphone amps, go with an ART HeadAmp6Pro (which actually has the capability to do what I want and have two extra headphone outs left over) for double the $$.
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Wait! How many pairs of monitors do you have? I thought you said 2 (two). In that case, you'd actually have 4 full channels left over from that 6 channel ART thing, each of which will feed 2 pairs of headphones...

You could get this and have 4 pairs of headphones and two free holes to stick them into. I know you want rackmount, but at this price you could get this thing and still be close to the same as that splitter thing. There are a couple other half-rack 4 channel fuckers out there.
 
Yes I have two sets, but thought I'd have to mono 4 channels to get where I was going. Stereo outs...wasn't thinking.

Is Behringer really so bad? I mean they were my #2 pick on the monitors I was going to get. I actually preferred the sound of the B3031As to the M-Audio's I got. I hear a lot of positive from people on them that they're not the fall apart company they were in the 80s.

So I'm just looking for an inexpensive solution to balancing a pair of KRK Rokit 5s (100W) and a pair of M-Audio M3-8s (440W) so they both sound about the same level. Thought that Ultralink Pro might be worth a shot.
The Universal rack mount tray is a nice touch. Might have to go that way if everyone here is dead set on Behringer still being junk.
 
The M-A is indeed very sensitive. 85mV for 90dB which is -19dBu (-21.4dBV) i.e. not a lot!

When you consider that there cannot be any AIs or soundcards that can't put out 0dBu, 0.775V at 0dBFS you have to wonder why so much gain? This also ties in with the fact than many active monitors produce more "self noise" than they should.

If I had the OP's problem I would just insert balanced attenuators in the offending monitor feeds and then trim the levels equal with the pots.

I do not think the Behringer would be bad at all but inserting anything in a monitor chain is a concern and yous always wonder??

Hobby Horse! A solder iron and a bit of electrical nouse can save you a lot of time, money and handwringing!

Oh! And buy a cheap "C" weighted sound level meter.

Dave.
 
ashcat_lt said:
Wait! How many pairs of monitors do you have? I thought you said 2 (two). In that case, you'd actually have 4 full channels left over from that 6 channel ART thing, each of which will feed 2 pairs of headphones...

You could get this and have 4 pairs of headphones and two free holes to stick them into. I know you want rackmount, but at this price you could get this thing and still be close to the same as that splitter thing. There are a couple other half-rack 4 channel fuckers out there.
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That's crazy - $80 for the headphone amp PLUS 4 sets of headphones? Can the quality be any better/worse than Behr products at that price?
 
mjbphotos said:
That's crazy - $80 for the headphone amp PLUS 4 sets of headphones? Can the quality be any better/worse than Behr products at that price?
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IDK anything about the headphones, but I'm sure they'll do in a pinch, and if theyre worth $5 a piece...

If I was offered two pieces of gear with similar features and no information, I'd choose the ART first over Behri every time. It might be a completely unreasonable position, but I've always known their shit to be solid. It's not as though this is a particularly complicated piece of machinery. You could build one in an afternoon if you had the parts and a little soldering experience, but it would probably cost more.

Note that this unit is not as full featured as mine. There are two holes on the back for stereo inputs, but they are in parallel (one would assume via straight wire) and will not work very well to mix two sources. They're not switchable either. So it won't work for me where I need to go back and forth between my two machines.

The paralleled output holes can all be used at the same time, though. You can actually drive eight pairs of headphones from the thing, but there are only the four knobs on the front, so each person would have to have volume buddy. I probably wouldn't want to connect headphones to the same channel as the speakers, but it honestly probably wouldn't hurt anything. It's plenty for the OP. Doesn't leave much room for expansion, but at this price? It'll always be useful for something, even if you outgrow it as a "monitor controller".

I guess the reason that I would go with this rather than the splitter thing in the OP is really that I think it can drive heavier loads (like headphones, or surface transducers) with less distortion than something designed specifically for line level might. But if it really is a splitter/mixer that works reasonably well, that Behri thing could also come in handy in a number of situations.

Might have to budget for a few TRS>Dual TS insert cables... Since you probably need 3, maybe grab a cheap 4-channel snake from Hosa or whatever. The outer black sheeth comes off pretty easily (and can be used to tidy up cables elsewhere, and then you've got four decent insert cables - one to spare.
 
I also have dual monitors (I hardly ever use the second pair, they are not for A/Bing, they just sit there as a spare set)...and I simply put the inputs of both montitors on my patchbay. :)
I can plug any source to either set of monitors in 2 seconds.

My main monitors (Mackies 824) are wired to the TC Level Pilot....the second set are passive JBL monitors, so for them there is an amp which has its own volume knobs.

The patchbay serves a much bigger purpose for all my other gear....but it just made sense to add the monitor inputs to the patchbay too.
 
Patch bays can really be your friend. Same goes for rack mounted midi patchbays with sliders to 8 different synths. Makes life so much easier.
People must also remember that Behringer now OWNS MIDAS. That's a significant change from a few decades ago.
 
The problem here is a pennies problem being sorted with a pounds solution.

The output is +4dB, the speakers being designed for the lower level get driven too hard - so we're looking at what? Two T-Pads, costing virtually nothing, plus maybe a M-F adaptor to house them? In fact, maybe a small mod and have a small box with two knobs you can then adjust to get the loudness to match the output fader and meters. Is there a reason we've suddenly got very complicated?
 
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