midi drums

[jane]

Hi all

I'm working on a demo using my own vocals and the rest of the instruments are midi. As a keyboardist and clarinettist I can get a reasonably "real" sound on most instruments, because I've played in ensembles with most instruments so have a bit of a feel for them, but for the life of me I can't work out how to make midi drums sound more authentic, and less even. I've played with quantizing but what I'm really after is that sort of indefinable "drummerosity". Is it possible with midi or should I just give up and try to find a real drummer?

Thanks
Jane

 

[S8-N]

If you are trying to make a drum machine sound like a real drummer I think I know where you are coming from... Good drummers are hard to find and when you finally do find one you might not be able to put up with their shit...
I have a real drummer but not enough mics to properly record his kit so for the time being I've been programming drum tracks and having to hear him critique them.
Here are a few tips on how to make a Drum Machine sound more human:
Dont quantize...but do stay in time...get everything as close to perfect as you can without quantizing.
Even with a stereo drum machine you can multitrack...this way you can add eq and reverb and whatever else to make the drums more realistic...
THis is what I do...When you program your drum parts into the drum machine, only use the Kick, High Hat, and snare. Then Pan your kick drum hard right...Pan your snare and high hat hard left...output your right channel to one track and your left channel to another. this gives you controll over processing your kick drums seperately... then overdub your crash cymbals, ride cymbals and toms individualy to seperate tracks. If you have a complex tom fill to put in...Program it into the drum machine and then get the tempo right. Record it onto its own track and move it around untill you get it in the right spot.
Also if you want the drum part to sound more human...dont use the same drum riff over and over, program slight variations to the original and mix 'em up...like add different kick drum accents. Most drum machines have a "copy" feature which you can use to create a duplicate of the riff, then just add a few kicks or snare accents. With a little practice you can simulate a real drummer...and if it doesnt work...put the drums low in the mix. Nothing is more gratifying than being able to demonstrate to your drummer that he can be replaced with a $200 piece of plastic that will fit into a book bag.
Have at it!

 

[dobro]

Hi jane
The software solutions to rhythm requirements are easier; hiring a human drummer involves more skills on your part (not to mention theirs), more problems, and more unexpected results. Do you want to control things more, or trust to an outcome that more than one person has had a glimpse of? Do you want to get rid of the problems involved in person/person interaction, or would you rather invite others into the making of what you're up to? Control freaks (and I number myself among them) tend to reach for tools they can wield; people with greater capacity always invite other people to join in. It's like Bjork. She does machine music basically, and yet regularly adds violins (real musicians, not machine-generated) to her tracks, and it sounds very, very good - way better than a machine or program can do on its own. She balances software and "who's where" (people).

 

[Dragon]

I forget the name, but I got with Cakewalk Pro Deluxe Ultra Enhanced (or whatever they call the expensive version) a set of MIDI drum tracks that were done by live drummers, and they're great. I think the CD goes for $80 or so and there might be a demo of some of it floating around on the Cakewalk site. Other than that, you've gotten some good advice. A few other tricks include playing with velocities and recording a few real cymbals to mix with the MIDI drums...apparently MIDI drum sounds are better than MIDI cymbals, and the real thing has enough overtones that adding it makes the rest sound a lot better.

 

[Dondello]

I've been recording stuff on the computer for awhile now, and it's usually just me playing all the instruments and overdubbing. I generally had all the instruments I needed at hand: acoustic, electric, I borrowed someone's bass... but I never had a set of drums (although I can, and love to drum). I found (as most people have probably also found) that MIDI drums sound...well, somewhat cheesy. So I set out to find a method that made them more real sounding without making my songs sound like Nine Inch Nails <g>. I'm assuming your recording onto your computer, so take the MIDI drums and record them down to a digital track (i.e. WAV). Then take them into Goldwave or something, so you can manipulate them at a bit-level. From here I just experimented with different levels of hiss, distortion, compression, until I found something that fit the particular song. Try it! It won't make the beat more human-like, but a quiet stripe of white noise through an EQ-band adds the perfect amount of randomness. If you want to hear a song I've done with fake-but-somewhat-more-real-that-MIDI-sounding drums, just e-mail me I'd love to play them to someone..

 

[mick_mundee]

Another thing you can try is creating a mod of drum tracks. If done correctly this sounds 100% realistic. There are mod trackers available to download such as fasttracker2, impulse tracker, and modplug tracker. The last has a windows based interface and is probably the easiest to use. http://www.modplug.com/index.shtml
You can create drum tracks using actual drum samples in wav format. You can change pitch, volume, panning, as well as add a number of effects. Once you get the drums laid out you can export to a wav file. This works well for me when I can't get my friend to drum what I want.

 

[Lorddiagram]

I own an ALesis D-4 and recomend it. It sounds great and can be found for a good deal. It is worth it to make your own drum set as I did. Instead of worrying how to make the drums sound real I suggest taking the time to at least learn how to hit a basic kick/snare high-hat track (The D-4 has a high hat pedal) If you want to see what I've made as well as some more info on drum modules go to http://homepages.go.com/~drumcage

 

[wylieship]

Im offended by the drummer bashing that is threaded through this conversation. There are just as many tasteless, untalented asshole bass and guitar players as drummers. I am a drummer first (guitar and harp player second). I am also a musician who plays drum parts that fit and enhance the music.

From a technical standpoint, the only way to get a human sound is to have a human play the parts. Since micing live drums is the achilles heel of home digital recording, I use a Roland TD-5 digital trap kit. The sounds, response, and effects are outstanding. If your drummer scoffs at using a digital kit, convince him that digital drums are a distinct instrument from acoustic drums--like a real piano is different to play than a keyboard. Digital drums take some getting used to, but once you do you can produce the same range of dynamics and sounds as an acoustic kit. And, at about $999, the roland is cheaper than a decent set of drums. There are fancier sets available that are absolutely outstanding and feel almost exactly like regular drums. I think digital drums--played by a human--are the best solution when you want a "real" drum sound in a pure digital recording environment.