Keyboard latency to PC DAW

taran2ula

New member
Hello folks. I am a long time midi studio recording guy and just recently got interested in doing some song composition on the PC using a Alesis Vi49 controller keyboard which has USB only outs. No matter what DAW I try (Ableton, Pro Tools, Cubase, Reaper) I get extreme latency between the time I strike the key and the time that I actually hear the sound. It is driving me insane because for 4 months now I have been on a love hate relationship with PC recording because I can not find the answer and the problem will not go away. I don't really care if there is any latency in playback, I only care that the timing between the time I hit the keys and hear the sound are correct. My PC specs are as follows:
Processor: Intel i7 Quad Core 4790K
Memory: GSkill 16GB (8X2) 2300Mhz
Video Card: EVGA Geforce GTX 970 4Gb
Motherboard: Gigabyte Z97X-UD5H
Power Supply: NZXT Pro Series 850 W

I do have a soundcard hard wired to the motherboard but I never use it, because as stated, the video and sound get sent via HDMI from the Geforce video card. I have tried following every tutorial, advice forum regarding this topic, etc, every setting under the sun from the buffers to changing the samples, and asio drivers etc. No matter what I do I can not get rid of this latency. It seems almost a 1.5 sec delay. Some people suggest an audio interface, sound card change, and some suggest a USB interface. I am not interested in any audio recording as I have a hardware multi track that I use for reliable recording with zero latency issues. I only want to use the DAW and a couple VST packages that I bought to do some song sketches and when I get something I want to keep, I will play everything on my hardware synths and record to my hardware multi track. If I need an audio interface, how would this connect to my PC so I would get low latency, and also circumvent my HDMI out issue with my video card? Do I need a dedicated audio input to use an audio interface? Should I buy a PCi sound card or a better sound card? Which sound card would be the best for low latency? Correct me if I am wrong but I get the impression that the latency is coming from my sound card because of the time it takes to process the key press and convert it to actual sound. I am so frustrated with this PC recording that I am ready to give it up and go back to all hardware work. This has been the most teeth clenching, frustrating experience, and I am determined to find an answer but so far none have come. I just don't think its ok to spend thousands of dollars trying to find the device that will work the best. Thank you kindly for any input or advice anyone can offer.
 
Unless there is something seriously wrong with it, the PC is easily capable of very low latency (certain graphics cards can/used to be a problem but if yours is one such, someone here will know).

The problem is I am sure the fact that you do NOT have an audio interface worth a ***t! You need one.
If you have a spare PCI slot you could do a lot worse than an M-Audio 2496 card. Obsolete yes but they are still about and are bloody fast. You could look for a PCIe card but they are much more expensive and unknown to me.

But, a much more practical and future proof solution is a USB interface and I have no hesitation in recommending the Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6. There is a Mkll out now but you should still find the original at around $100.

You need you see to use ASIO drivers and THAT means a decent AI.

Where in the world are you chap?

Oooof! Just looked up a 2496 on Amazon and they quote $299. Total rip off.

Dave.
 
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Two things to look at. Your keyboard does have a midi out, so you could use that with either a small cheap midi interface or buy a proper audio interface which has midi in out, but I suspect your issue is a driver problem. Alesis have oddly no drivers on their site and Google reveals lots of people looking for them. Have a look in device manager and I bet windows is using a generic driver to do the work causing the problem. Music needs proper drivers and I wonder if alesis hide the driver in the editor package, which you may not have installed. Have you asked alesis? Personally, I'd buy an audio interface because you want decent audio and that won't come from the internal audio system.
 
It wouldn't surprise me that the HDMI output induced some latency. For one thing, I bet they need to keep audio and video synced, which might require delaying the audio to match video that's been processed or buffered.

Have you tried using the conventional OEM sound card to see if there's a noticeable difference? If there is then it might be worth trying a USB recording interface since they're specifically designed for applications that require low latency (though you won't get to use the direct monitoring function with MIDI).
 
It wouldn't surprise me that the HDMI output induced some latency. For one thing, I bet they need to keep audio and video synced, which might require delaying the audio to match video that's been processed or buffered.

Have you tried using the conventional OEM sound card to see if there's a noticeable difference? If there is then it might be worth trying a USB recording interface since they're specifically designed for applications that require low latency (though you won't get to use the direct monitoring function with MIDI).

Ah! Good thinking there Batman! OP, why HDMI? If feeding a domestic FSTV most have a VGA input and analogue audio. Even if there is no VGA there should be an RCA CVBS input. You can get VGA to HDMI converters but I bet they introduce delay anyway?

The thing is, with audio/MIDI the idea is K.I.S.Sir and stay conventional. An ASIO capable interface and direct video to monitor.

Dave.
 
I'm typing this on my video editor which uses HDMI from a Geeforce card feeding three monitors. The audio is handled by the motherboard audio - which is fine bar a very low level burble. However, I just tried the audio via the monitor and there is a significant delay in the HDMI audio compared to the motherboard audio. Googling it reveals the gamers complaining about this, and it's a known issue. Plugging in a MIDI input makes playing using the HDMI audio horrible.

I think a rethink of your audio side is needed. HDMI is always a latency issue in the making because of how it processes video, and my 9800 GX2 GeForce is great for video, but looks like it's audio via HDMI is a bit poor.
 
Unless there is something seriously wrong with it, the PC is easily capable of very low latency (certain graphics cards can/used to be a problem but if yours is one such, someone here will know).

The problem is I am sure the fact that you do NOT have an audio interface worth a ***t! You need one.
If you have a spare PCI slot you could do a lot worse than an M-Audio 2496 card. Obsolete yes but they are still about and are bloody fast. You could look for a PCIe card but they are much more expensive and unknown to me.

But, a much more practical and future proof solution is a USB interface and I have no hesitation in recommending the Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6. There is a Mkll out now but you should still find the original at around $100.

You need you see to use ASIO drivers and THAT means a decent AI.

Where in the world are you chap?

Oooof! Just looked up a 2496 on Amazon and they quote $299. Total rip off.

Dave.
I am in Bronx New York USA. Okay so an audio interface might be the problem then. I guess I'll buy a nice interface and see if the issue goes away. Some people suggest buying a new sound card too. I see audio interfaces listed as sound cards. Are they? Should I use the midi out on my Alesis VI49 to connect to the audio interface, or the USB? How does the audio interface connect to the PC, and how does it circumvent any sound card issues I might be experiencing? Thanks for all the replies I sure do appreciate it.
 
I am in Bronx New York USA. Okay so an audio interface might be the problem then. I guess I'll buy a nice interface and see if the issue goes away. Some people suggest buying a new sound card too. I see audio interfaces listed as sound cards. Are they? Should I use the midi out on my Alesis VI49 to connect to the audio interface, or the USB? How does the audio interface connect to the PC, and how does it circumvent any sound card issues I might be experiencing? Thanks for all the replies I sure do appreciate it.

Yeah, new people do get confused about this! An Audio Interface is simply a bit of electronics that turns analogue audio into digits which the computer can understand and also turn the digits back into analogue audio for us huming beans.

Ten or so years ago most were PCI cards (most famously the Sound Blasters which were ***t for you purpose!) Then Firewire external AIs ruled the roost but today USB 2.0 is by far the most common. TB is coming along but is only found in esoteric kit with zillions of channels.

So, you need a USB interface WITH MIDI ports since the Alesis has a MIDI out and that might give lower latency than its USB connection.

I have suggested the NI KA6 because I have one and it has the lowest latency I know of for anything close to its price point. To do better I think you would have to look at RME interfaces.

I asked about your 10/20 because had you been in UK I could have loaned you my KA6 to try.

Dave.
 
I am in Bronx New York USA. Okay so an audio interface might be the problem then. I guess I'll buy a nice interface and see if the issue goes away. Some people suggest buying a new sound card too. I see audio interfaces listed as sound cards. Are they? Should I use the midi out on my Alesis VI49 to connect to the audio interface, or the USB? How does the audio interface connect to the PC, and how does it circumvent any sound card issues I might be experiencing? Thanks for all the replies I sure do appreciate it.


Hi,
An audio interface is a device that handles all your analog to digital (inputs) and digital to analog (outputs). It may have other digital/midi inputs etc.
A sound card really is an audio interface.
Generally 'sound card' is a term associated with consumer gear or the device built into the computer and generally audio interface means something better, although there are exceptions.

There are numerous benefits to a standalone external device.
The mains one are lower noise (power filtering, shielding, balanced IO, and proximity to other noisy gear), and solid drivers from a reputable manufacturer who is concerned with pro-audio performance.
That's not to say you can't get low latency out a realtek built-in, but drivers from Tascam/Presonus/Motu/RME etc are made with performance and latency in mind.


All that said, you should be able to work out if you're dealing with an input delay or delay in processing/output.
In Protools, because that's what I know, there is a meter that indicates midi input.
If I hit a key and that meter moves late, I know the issue is with the midi input side of things.

If I hit a key and see immediate midi-input meter movement but the sound is delayed, I know I'm dealing with processing delay or playback latency.

You shouldn't need fancy gear to play a synth and hear it back in a reasonable time-frame but maybe figuring out which of those two is true will set you on the right path.
 
Hi jumping in... without reading all the replies. You absolutely need an audio interface to reduce the latency. You will still have some, but with the right interface, it wont be noticeable. The soundcard or HDMI will not work because latency is so bad. (Based on my experiences.) I'm wiling to bet the HDMI connection adds more latecny than the onboard sound card.

THe latency comes from the audio playback, not from the USB connection or VSTi synth. I use a 25 key controller through USB and it works fine.

A good interface might something like the focusrite scarlet series. I always recommend at least a 2-channel interface.
 
You can check if the On Board Soundcard is good enough.
Plug in some headphones into the PC and set the OBS as the default playback and record device.

You will probably need some test software and I suggest the trial of Modartt's Pianoteq. A very low resource program and very simple to setup.

If that gives you low enough latency you know you need to do other than use HDMI for sound. I still suggest a decent (two mic inputs +MIDI) AI as well.

Dave.
 
Yeah, new people do get confused about this! An Audio Interface is simply a bit of electronics that turns analogue audio into digits which the computer can understand and also turn the digits back into analogue audio for us huming beans.

Ten or so years ago most were PCI cards (most famously the Sound Blasters which were ***t for you purpose!) Then Firewire external AIs ruled the roost but today USB 2.0 is by far the most common. TB is coming along but is only found in esoteric kit with zillions of channels.

So, you need a USB interface WITH MIDI ports since the Alesis has a MIDI out and that might give lower latency than its USB connection.

I have suggested the NI KA6 because I have one and it has the lowest latency I know of for anything close to its price point. To do better I think you would have to look at RME interfaces.

I asked about your 10/20 because had you been in UK I could have loaned you my KA6 to try.

Dave.

Well thank you kindly for that offer. I do wish I was in the UK sometimes. Never been there but I hear good things. Better than the warzone in the Bronx New York that's fer sure. Anyhow, thank you very much for your input and I will consider all of that, especially the interface you suggested. Very much appreciated.
 
Hi,
An audio interface is a device that handles all your analog to digital (inputs) and digital to analog (outputs). It may have other digital/midi inputs etc.
A sound card really is an audio interface.
Generally 'sound card' is a term associated with consumer gear or the device built into the computer and generally audio interface means something better, although there are exceptions.

There are numerous benefits to a standalone external device.
The mains one are lower noise (power filtering, shielding, balanced IO, and proximity to other noisy gear), and solid drivers from a reputable manufacturer who is concerned with pro-audio performance.
That's not to say you can't get low latency out a realtek built-in, but drivers from Tascam/Presonus/Motu/RME etc are made with performance and latency in mind.


All that said, you should be able to work out if you're dealing with an input delay or delay in processing/output.
In Protools, because that's what I know, there is a meter that indicates midi input.
If I hit a key and that meter moves late, I know the issue is with the midi input side of things.

If I hit a key and see immediate midi-input meter movement but the sound is delayed, I know I'm dealing with processing delay or playback latency.

You shouldn't need fancy gear to play a synth and hear it back in a reasonable time-frame but maybe figuring out which of those two is true will set you on the right path.
Yes I have talked with other professionals and they also hint that the latency issue might be on the playback side since I am only using a simply controller keyboard via USB to my PC and triggering some VST sounds. Only one VST loaded, and using Reaper, although I have tried Protools, Ableton Live, Cubase, Garage band, bla bla, bla bla. Same result each time. I guess I'll buy an audio interface and try it out. I don't need many inputs because I am not interested in doing audio recording, only triggering sounds in a VST. Purely experimenting with chords in a midi chord package I have to get some ideas where I want my song to go. Thank you ever so kindly for your input and advice. Much appreciated and hello from the Bronx New York to all you cool cats over there in England. :)
 
@ Chili Thank you kindly for your input. I will buy an interface and see what happens. I appreciate all of your replies and I will follow up as to what might have been the issue or if the interface solved the problem. Have a great afternoon folks.
 
I guess I'll buy an audio interface and try it out.

These fellas are probably all right about the HDMI having some amount of delay, but I like to prove things.
It'd be worth doing that midi input meter check to be 100% sure.

Also, if your computer has a regular 3.5mm audio out socket, give that a blast. No reason not to and no reason I can think of that there should be a big delay there.

If you were recording/streaming etc a dedicated audio interface would be the better quality way to go, for sure.
 
These fellas are probably all right about the HDMI having some amount of delay, but I like to prove things.
It'd be worth doing that midi input meter check to be 100% sure.

Also, if your computer has a regular 3.5mm audio out socket, give that a blast. No reason not to and no reason I can think of that there should be a big delay there.

If you were recording/streaming etc a dedicated audio interface would be the better quality way to go, for sure.

Ok thank you kindly for your input and I will try that as well. My sound delay comes after I strike a key. Horrendous 1.5 sec delay. I am only triggering a sound in my VST package and I still get it. I do not want to record audio in at all so I was unsure why people suggested an audio interface but I guess they know what they're talking about because I sure don't, lol. So some thought an audio interface would stop this latency. I am rather unsure which to buy, and also how to connect it to my PC. Thanks again for your valuable input, all of you kind people. Ill keep you updated in case you're interested.
 
Ok thank you kindly for your input and I will try that as well. My sound delay comes after I strike a key. Horrendous 1.5 sec delay. I am only triggering a sound in my VST package and I still get it. I do not want to record audio in at all so I was unsure why people suggested an audio interface but I guess they know what they're talking about because I sure don't, lol. So some thought an audio interface would stop this latency. I am rather unsure which to buy, and also how to connect it to my PC. Thanks again for your valuable input, all of you kind people. Ill keep you updated in case you're interested.

Yes, your particular situation only really calls for a digital to analogue converter (you still need to hear wtf you are doing? ). Unfortunately there is no such thing well, not in the projjy studio class AFAIK.
High end makers like Benchmark make one way D to As (and the complimentary A/D) but these are very expensive and contain many functions you do not need.

But you never know when a pair of inputs can come in handy! Might want to dub some old tapes or vinyl one day?

Dave.
 
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