Just Starting and Have Questions

WurWulf

WurWulf

New member
I'm an old guy that has been playing guitar with working bands since I was in my late teens. Over the years I've found myself on a lot of recorded music the majority of which was straight out of the board at shows and thru other bandmates gear that they were at the controls of I have also been involved with 5 projects that were recorded at bona fide studios with real engineers so I never have really been at the controls so I have no recording knowledge outside of things I've learned just by my involvement as a musician. Other things have helped like running live sound I have a decent ear and we used a Mackie 24 channel mixer

This brings me to why I'm here. 1st all upgrades or new gear comes with a price tag and my budget caps out at a grand would like to spend less. I'm not happy with the results I'm getting and the volume is adequate but not as much flexibility increasing volume I would like to have. Most of my recording has been done on multi-track all-in-one work stations so I purchased one because of my experience with the Brand in other devices and the low cost I was also told to get a dedicated PC so I did here's a complete list of what I have now. I think I may be able to use this as a starting place for

Zoom R8 recorder (Has a drum loop machine and effects built in I'm using different effects)

HP Laptop AMD Dual Core Processor 4GB Ram 1TB HDD (no recording software installed)

Zoom MS-50 Multi-Effects stomp box processor

Presonus Eris e3.5 powered monitors

AKG 24 Studio headphones.
 
To get a better idea of what to recommend, we would need to know what your recording aspirations are. What do you intend to record? Vocals? Instruments? How many tracks do you need to be able to record simultaneously?

Also, there are (broadly) two main recording processes: through a standalone unit (e.g. the Zoom), or through a computer.


If you intend to record onto computer, your laptop will be fine. These days 4gb of Ram is a bit light, but not unworkable.

The ERis3.5e monitors are ok, but don't have a lot of low end extension.

You haven't mentioned microphones.
 
If you're running the Zoom R8, you are limited to 2 simultaneous tracks so I guess that is your starting point. I don't have an R8, but I'll make the assumption that it uses a similar storage system as my R24, which are wave files.

You should be able to pull audio files off the SD card of the R8 and dump them onto your hard drive and into a DAW software. If you need more tracks, you can dump the first batch and then clear a few tracks, maybe using a rough mix as a guide track and add more tracks. The R8 will also act as a 2in-2out audio interface, so you SHOULDN'T need to buy another audio interface to record direct to computer. If you are working at 44K, you can still use the Zoom's DSP effects when recording to a DAW.

My old laptop has a copy of Cubase LE. I think I have a copy of LE6 somewhere but I've never installed it. Depending on how recently you bought your Zoom, you should have a copy of Cubase LE8. Highly suggest that you install that and try using that for mixdown work. You will have a lot more control over your tracks. You can boost volume, use compression, eq, and effects as needed. I personally have moved to Reaper. You can download it for free and use it to see if works for you. It was more capable than Cubase LE, but they do similar tasks.

The complexity of your recordings will show you the limits of your computer system. I've done basic 6-8 channel mixes on my old 2nd gen I3 laptop with 4GB, but it struggled. I easily can run 20 tracks with effects on my 4th Gen I5 with 12GB of ram. Post the model computer and the exact processor and speed, and we might be able to tell you how capable it will be.
 
I only need 2 but 4 to 8 would be nice however I can bounce the rest. I write a lot of the music and another guy writes most of the lyrics. I use the word "write" loosely for the music we'll just say I come up with the music for the lyrics. I usually lay down the rhythm guitar track first then bass lines then any melody lines or leads last all with a drum loop added in and I sometimes put in keyboard parts. When the guys get it they start working on their parts and when everything is satisfactory we want to put it together with everyone's individual contributions.
I hope I explained that right and thank you for helping me gecko zzed I'm just not satisfied with the quality of the music I'm producing we have some IMO pretty good music I just can't get a good sound on my end.
 
WurWulf said:
I only need 2 but 4 to 8 would be nice however I can bounce the rest.
Click to expand...

Bouncing is a sub-optimal way of doing things. It was necessary in the days of limited tracks on tape recorders, and then of stand-alone digital recorders and early computer-based DAWs.

These days it is unnecessary and is a limiting factor in getting the best results.

Most contemporary DAWs have pretty much unlimited number of tracks, and thus allow much better control over whole projects.

You can use your Zoom R8 as an interface, accepting its two-output limitation. If you are simply recording one part at a time, this should not be an obstacle. Using a DAW such as Reaper will allow yo to record as many tracks as you want. I expect you could do the same with Cubase.
 
So I'm going to recap to see if I have this right please let me know if you think I'm making a misstep Like I said earlier I can spend about a grand right now on gear but like everyone I'm poor and limited in funds and would like to spend less. I can upgrade and increase my memory to 8 GB of ram from the 4 GB my laptop has now for less than $100 (do you believe that to be enough RAM?) Then use the R8 as my interface and drum machine now I need to select a DAW. If that's correct I know there's free software available for download but from what I've read sounds I really need to purchase a good one. Some points of interest for me are 1st and foremost it must be user friendly I'm not only dumb but I am also an idiot as well as stupid so the more simple to use the better for me. Next would be effects I would love to have onboard effects the R8 has effects and I have the little Zoom MS-50 as well but I'd really just like to use it for live stuff. This is the second tine in a couple of Days Reaper has been brought to my attention. Am I on the right track and are there anymore suggestions? If I may ask for more recommendations what about headphones I currently have the AKG 240 Studio I can live with the monitors. also if I were to go with 8 in 8 out interface any suggestions there? Also I was asked about mics I have access to several EV's ND76 Shure SM58's and 57's for instruments as well as a couple of CAD condenser mics that require phantom power.
Thanks so much for your input you sure know how to make noobies welcome and I do appreciate it.
 
The Cubase LE8 will work, but its limited in its number of tracks (I think it used to be 16... you can check the website). If that's the most audio tracks you'll be using, you're still fine. You might as well download it since it's FREE! They usually include a bunch of goodies like plugins, or virtual instruments. I remember my R24 came with a USB stick with lots of drum loops on it as well as Cubase LE.

Reaper it free to try for 2 months, and only $60 to register. That's good for two versions, which would get you though to V7.999, probably 3 or 4 years from now. It will still work after that, you just don't get the upgrades when they go to V8.0. I'm still running V5.99. I haven't had any projects that required the upgrades in V6. It also comes with a bunch of plugins, and the SWS extensions are very handy. Watch some instructional videos. You can make things as simple or as complicated as you wish. Once you get familiar with a software package it becomes second nature. I remember the days when our office manager was amazed at the few things I did with Lotus 123. She never thought she could do that. Now you should see her build an Excel spreadsheet with multiple tabs, linked cells and complex equations. It takes a bit of learning and doing, but its not REALLY that complicated to run a DAW.

According to the Zoom site, if you are recording at 44.1K, you can use the effects. "A USB port allows the R8 to send and receive digital data and to act as an 2-input/2-output interface for DAWs such as the included Cubase LE. When operating at a sampling frequency of 44.1kHz, input signal can be routed through the R8's onboard DSP effects." That should cover echo, amp sims, compressors, EQ, etc.

For headphones, I have the 240Studios, Sony 7506s, and Sennheiser HD280s. I think the AKGs are the best balanced, 7506s can be harsh on top, and the HD280s are a bit too dark but they isolate well.

If you want to go to an 8 mic input interface, I would recommend looking at the Scarlett 18I20 to start. My interface is a Tascam 16x08. Presonus also makes one, but I don't know anyone who has a Presonus unit. They all have their pluses and minuses. You'll want to spend some time studying that subject.

Remember, if you go with 8 mic inputs, you'll need 8 mics! There's a lot more variation in sound from different mics than different interfaces. Plus, there are probably 10 times more mics out there than interfaces. Everybody is making them these days. You have to be careful, because sometimes there's a lot of "flavor of the month" attitudes with mics.

Personally, I would start with trying the DAW route, and work from there. Record a few things and post them for us to check out and discuss. It doesn't have to be Dark Side of the Moon quality (and probably won't be on your first shot).
 
Thanks Talismanrich I really appreciate the info I ordered the RAM upgrade for the laptop and going to the max 16 GB it has a 1 TB HDD.

Going to download a DAW today and start the learning curve. Thanks so much I'll be back in a day or two and will post a sample here I store on Soundcloud can I post a link here? Please be honest I'm not fishing for compliments just seeking advice on recording my music. I'm retired and like most people locked in from the covid-19 virus live alone so I've got the time to play with this new adventure in music.
 
I am still pretty much a fan of a hardware recorder much like the "old-school equipment" on which I began my recording experience. I believe that a DEDICATED PC with plenty of horsepower would work, but I happen to be one who loves the feel of the actual buttons and knobs under my hand. I currently use a Tascam DP24 digital recorder with a Yamaha outboard mixer. Being totally blind, I haven't yet figured out how to efficiently use all of the mixing and mastering capability of the Tascam I have; again, I think it's the feel of the buttons and knobs under me which respond quickly as I operate them.
One thing I have against a recording setup built around a computer running Microsoft Windows stuff is that I don't like dealing with viruses, vulnerabilities, spyware, and spam. I have encountered situations in which I might come to the computer and find that Microsoft has popped an update which, if I am lucky, the screen reader will notify me, or I might not hear any message and have to wonder for several minutes what is going on. I have also encountered a few situations in which Microsoft in its "wisdom" changed a setting which was very difficult for me to change back to what I want. MS once changed the setting on downloads so that it was set to download ONLY from apps in the Microsoft store. I often need to use apps not in that store, and I had a hell of a time getting the setting back to where I wanted it - that I could download anything I want with the understanding that I would have to be careful and download only from sources I know. A dedicated PC used ONLY for music processing might get you free from my objections, especially if you can turn off auto updating and install updates ONLY when you want to do it. Such a dedicated setup with plenty of horse power might give you all the advantages I have with the dedicated hardware setup plus a few other benefits; but that is something you'll have to decide for yourself.
 
I downloaded the trial version of reaper last night and am trying to get a handle on running the program a little bit. My 1st impression is that I will have quite the learning curve with this DAW. I think I also want to check out the Presonus Studio One 5 artist one of the guys use it and told me he was impressed at the ease of operation. He bought the Presonus 2 in 2 out interface and the software was included.
As far as the need for mics TalismanRich I have access to plenty my last band was together 17 years and we gathered tons of gear I can use anytime, these are the guys I'm writing and recording with. I do plan to just plug instruments straight into the board is this a bad idea? I will be recording 2 or guitar parts, drum tracks or loops, bass lines and sometimes keys as well as vocals. Hopefully we can take this and everyone can lay down their discipline be it Bass percussion or whatever and end up with a good mix and recording.
As far as a multi-track stand alone my R8 does everything but I am looking for what is good for me and the R8 or other like units have not given me what I'm looking for. So now it's time to try something else and sell the Zoom and go the DAW/Computer route. Again you guy's are awesome I've never received this level of help on any guitar forum so again thanks to all for your thoughts and suggestions seems I sure stumbled onto one great recording forum.
 
The Videos on Reaper's page are excellent. Kenny uses a Mac for demo but it's easy to follow for Windows. There is also a forum full of answers there. Don't be intimidated by the bazillion things Reaper offers, recording and mixing only requires a few easy steps.
 
WurWulf,

If you are building track individually, then you really don't need 8 or 16 inputs. I don't know that I would sell the R8 because those things are SO handy if you just want to quickly record an idea, plus they are portable. Besides my R24, I've got an H4n that I used to carry with me on trips, in case mood hit me. I usually either track my guitar from a mic and amp (for electric) or through a old PODxt. Bass usually goes direct. If I had a drummer, it would be mics all the way, but since its just me, lately its been MT PowerDrumkit, my Alesis SR18 or some sample tracks I got with my R24.

I've done live jam sessions with 8 channels on the Zoom. Usually 3 drum mics, bass mic, 3 guitar mics and a PA feed for vocals. Its always a fluid situation, so I have to adapt as things happen.
This was from a few years back... Dropbox - Sams Barn Shuffle.mp3 - Simplify your life.

Don't let Reaper scare you. Its really very logical once you get your inputs and outputs set up. Create a track, arm for recording and hit the button. Spend a few days with it and you'll start to feel right at home. Any multichannel DAW is going to look intimidating at first. Heck, you can find some stems here on HR, download them and pull them into Reaper just to play with. Also, the versions you downloaded isn't a trial, its the full monty! They don't give you a crippled version to try out.

BTW, I used to travel through your neck of the woods monthly, heading down to Spartanburg SC. I miss stopping at the Farmers Market on I-40 to grab peaches for the folks back home. I bought a nice Princeton type amp from John Schuske at The Amp Shop. I also stopped in the Guitar Trader a few times just to browse. There seems to be lots of music around there and in Greenville.
 
TalismanRich said:
WurWulf,

If you are building track individually, then you really don't need 8 or 16 inputs. I don't know that I would sell the R8 because those things are SO handy if you just want to quickly record an idea, plus they are portable. Besides my R24, I've got an H4n that I used to carry with me on trips, in case mood hit me. I usually either track my guitar from a mic and amp (for electric) or through a old PODxt. Bass usually goes direct. If I had a drummer, it would be mics all the way, but since its just me, lately its been MT PowerDrumkit, my Alesis SR18 or some sample tracks I got with my R24.

I've done live jam sessions with 8 channels on the Zoom. Usually 3 drum mics, bass mic, 3 guitar mics and a PA feed for vocals. Its always a fluid situation, so I have to adapt as things happen.
This was from a few years back... Dropbox - Sams Barn Shuffle.mp3 - Simplify your life.

Don't let Reaper scare you. Its really very logical once you get your inputs and outputs set up. Create a track, arm for recording and hit the button. Spend a few days with it and you'll start to feel right at home. Any multichannel DAW is going to look intimidating at first. Heck, you can find some stems here on HR, download them and pull them into Reaper just to play with. Also, the versions you downloaded isn't a trial, its the full monty! They don't give you a crippled version to try out.

BTW, I used to travel through your neck of the woods monthly, heading down to Spartanburg SC. I miss stopping at the Farmers Market on I-40 to grab peaches for the folks back home. I bought a nice Princeton type amp from John Schuske at The Amp Shop. I also stopped in the Guitar Trader a few times just to browse. There seems to be lots of music around there and in Greenville.
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Sorry I dropped off the radar for a couple of days I do that when I'm working on a project and this recording set up is more of a project than I thought it would be but I'm up to the task. I've never been to or heard of the Guitar Trader I'll have to check it out but have only heard good things about The Amp Shop. I do most my own repairs/maintenance on my amps and guitars. I do anything on guitars except structural damage and fret replacement. I had a nice little business going before the pandemic hit I was doing set-ops and mods I'm kind of known for upgrading Asian Guitars. Anyway on to recording.
I must admit that Reaper Has me siting at attention however it's not got me running with my tail between my legs I have come across another snag when I bought this last laptop I had recording in mind but did not know what to look for and bought it because it had 1TB HDD paid no attention to the 4GB of RAM or the drives 5400 rpm. Now I am learning a bit more about computers I'm trying to decide between HDD and SSD. I also think I will try my hand at building a desk top this time I believe I can get more bang for my buck and I have a friend that has been making a living repairing computers the last 25 or 30 years if I have a problem. I could just ask him but if I do it for myself I'll actually learn what I'm doing and why. So bare with me my new friends and again thank you so much for taking your time and sharing your knowledge there's some awesome folks on this forum. I will be back
 
I don't know what your laptop has, but I just upgraded my ex-wife's 10 yr old laptop to 8gb from 4 for $25. I just put a 500GB SSD in my new laptop for $79. For simple mixing, I've done it on an old I3 laptop with a 5400RPM drive. I don't use a lot of VSTs, so Reaper ran just fine. I haven't built a desktop in over 10 yrs, but they really aren't that hard to build. I would suggest that you have your buddy there to walk you through the process, just to increase the chances of things booting up perfectly the first time. Simple things like having a proper fan can make a big difference.

Fun times are ahead!
 
Okay I'm back with another question. I was given a new laptop that the motherboard fried I can replace the motherboard install 2 16GB RAM for 32 GB, and swap the HDD for a 1TB SSD for $350 or for another $100 I can go to a 2TB NAND 3D SSD. I have a fresh copy of Windows 10 Pro so the only program that will be installed is whatever DAW I decide on I am setting between Reaper and Studio One Artist. In my mind this will be a great recording computer but I'm not a computer tech by any means and am looking at it from a novice eye. Do you feel this will be adequate for recording or should I just build a more powerful desktop?
Again thank you so much for letting me bounce these questions off of you and giving your input it is invaluable to me.
 
memory and fast large storage are the keys for successful music - rarely the most swish and sizzling processors. I now keep my samples on a big external drive to free up the laptop. Sampler packages can be simply huge, so lots of storage is now pretty vital.
 
Installing more RAM = good.

I would be inclined not t6o go too big on the intenal SSD, but instead go for 1tb, and then get a larger external drive on which to store your data. That way if the laptop goes belly-up you haven't lost your data. Or if you decide to change computers later, you can plug the external drive into the new computer.
 
rob aylestone said:
memory and fast large storage are the keys for successful music - rarely the most swish and sizzling processors. I now keep my samples on a big external drive to free up the laptop. Sampler packages can be simply huge, so lots of storage is now pretty vital.
Click to expand...

Now, as y'all know, I am good with valve, not so good with 'puters but I read! And I remember a discussion between several of the top computer men in the audio industry and they all said a fast processor is the most important part in an audio PC, especially for low latency.

I would say 16G of ram is easily enough for home recording use (4/8k video work excepted!) and save money on that SSD, 1/2 a gig is plenty IMHO. These things sap batteries and get hot. My old HP i3 ran noticeably warmer when I doubled the ram to 8G...if I COULD put 32 gig in there I would not be able to have it on me lap!

And Reaper all the live long day.

Dave.
 
There have been some really useful articles over the past year or so and the way the software works now means that processor speed isn't the real key. Have a watch of this video - puts the problem into perspective.
 
One good thing about the newer RAM designs is that the power requirements have dropped. When DDR first came out, it ran at 2.5-3v. The DDR3 memory I put in my Asus is only 1.35v, and the new DDR4 stuff is running between 1 and 1.2v. Lower power means less heat and longer battery life. Its too bad that they aren't 1 for 1 replacements. Its like CPU sockets, they keep changing the pinout.

I remember the days when I was buying 5.25" floppy drives and had to build a power supply with 12V 1.25A voltage rectifiers, one for each drive. I think the 40MB SCSI drive took 3A on the 12 and 5V lines. I would buy linear power supply boards at the surplus electronics store.
 
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