Computer in separate room and cable lengths

R

rob aylestone

Moderator
I'm going to revamp my studio in a few weeks and the plan is to put both computers in a separate space because the fan noise is audible and my new shaped studio won't have two rooms anymore, just one bigger space and the noise will be a pain. This means that I will need to extend the USB and firewire cables under the floor. So I'm thinking of bringing all each computer's connectors to the new console I'm building. 3m could be too short, so 5m is more like it. Ignoring the paper specs, USB3 down 5m cables, and the same with firewire - am I going to get grief? Decent cable with real copper is what I'm thinking but is 5m too long? If it is - any solutions? I'll probably end up with some powered USB3 3 or 4 way units to connect extra things? My system is stable at the moment - anyone got experience of things like USB drives, interfaces (USB and Firewire) and other data heavy devices on long cables. monitor feeds appear OK -HDMI, VGA and DVI all seem to be 5m capable.
 
When I was setting up my last room, I wanted to keep the MIDI via USB keyboard on the other side of the room from my computer, used a 3 meter cable (longest available) and a 1 meter extension (USB socket>USB plug. This was USB 2, never had any issues. Not sure about mouse/keyboard or peripheral devices though.
 
rob aylestone said:
I'm going to revamp my studio in a few weeks and the plan is to put both computers in a separate space because the fan noise is audible and my new shaped studio won't have two rooms anymore, just one bigger space and the noise will be a pain. This means that I will need to extend the USB and firewire cables under the floor. So I'm thinking of bringing all each computer's connectors to the new console I'm building. 3m could be too short, so 5m is more like it. Ignoring the paper specs, USB3 down 5m cables, and the same with firewire - am I going to get grief? Decent cable with real copper is what I'm thinking but is 5m too long? If it is - any solutions? I'll probably end up with some powered USB3 3 or 4 way units to connect extra things? My system is stable at the moment - anyone got experience of things like USB drives, interfaces (USB and Firewire) and other data heavy devices on long cables. monitor feeds appear OK -HDMI, VGA and DVI all seem to be 5m capable.
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There are some limitations to cable lengths...but sometimes you just need to try it. With USB, if you use a powered hub in-between two cable lengths, it can help.

The other options are...replace the fans with better/quieter ones or get a small iso-box for the computers.

Some of my previous towers had real loud fans...small and high speed...and I had an iso-box for them.
My current tower (which is a pretty old Dell by current computer models), has very quiet fans, so much so, that the computer sits underneath my console...and it's not in any iso-box.
 
My computer is quiet enough, but the RAID boxes are not. I have them in a closet at the end of 5m/15' USB cables, plugged in to USB 3.0. Seems to be working Ok, though there could be data correction going on I don't know about, I assume. (I don't need USB 3.0 speeds for what I do.) But my interface connection is short, probably < 2m (and FireWire).
 
Are these laptop or desktop computers? If they're desktops, I'd recommend installing quieter fans and setting them up in the BIOS to have a nice quiet curve so they won't be a nuisance when recording.
 
Done a bit of this Rob!
I needed to run my NI KA6 off a 5mtrs USB 2.0 cable. I found a good but basic cable would work fine on one PC but not on a second. A top quality Lindy cable worked fine on both. Lindy do a vast range of cable lengths in FW/USB with FW up to 10mtr.

The problem can be however, whilst many devices will work over 3mtrs of cable or with hubs, audio kit can be fussy. I suspect the FW AI will be the bottleneck so get a top grade Lindy for that and try it.

Keyboards and mice seem to extend ad.inf. or you can go wireless? I had two cheap, 15 quid wireless kbds and mice that worked fine through a single course brick wall. Line of sight was about 6mtrs.

VGA will go 10mtrs no sweat as will HDMI. S/PDIF 20mtrs if you use TV 75 Ohm 'low loss' coax and big chunky RCA plugs. Nukies are best.

I have sent MIDI experimentally down 30mtrs of CAT 5e, seemed ok for a short test.

For longer runs >50mtrs you can get CAT5e/CAT 6 adaptors (CPC) that can handle USB, VGA, CVBS, HDMI but not Firewire AFAICS.

Dave.
 
Suck it and see then? I'm going to de-clutter, so the computer racks (2 carillon 19" jobs) go in a 1m wide corridor/cupboard essentially. they've got two fans in each running at half speed to cool them as they're 24/7 computers. 1 music, 1 video. Losing them from the space will quieten it down quite a bit. I'm keeping the firewire interface and the 8x8 midi device local, and maybe a module or two. At the moment I'm also using a 24ch mixer to feed in the various synths and stuff into the monitor system, and I'm tempted to dump this too, but having to use the audio computer with multiple ins just to hear a synth and the other computer seems a bit silly. removing the mixer from the space would make sense, but maybe I can can think of something to give me the two computers and maybe 2 other inputs from the keys? Would be nice to not have to have to set cubase up to bring in these sources, but I guess I could live with that? More tricky than I thought, logistics wise.
 
I had a Dell 690 in a cupboard at the rear of my recording room, no real issues with cables (i patched them through the walls) the issues were, significant heat build up meant the fans were ramped all the time (.5 x 1m hall cupboard) and the utter pain in the a** when rebooting, installing software, or trouble shooting having to walk through 2 other rooms round to the cupboard. I replaced it with a Scan system and it is as quiet as a ghost even under heavy load sitting right next to me.
 
rob aylestone said:
Suck it and see then? I'm going to de-clutter, so the computer racks (2 carillon 19" jobs) go in a 1m wide corridor/cupboard essentially. they've got two fans in each running at half speed to cool them as they're 24/7 computers. 1 music, 1 video. Losing them from the space will quieten it down quite a bit. I'm keeping the firewire interface and the 8x8 midi device local, and maybe a module or two. At the moment I'm also using a 24ch mixer to feed in the various synths and stuff into the monitor system, and I'm tempted to dump this too, but having to use the audio computer with multiple ins just to hear a synth and the other computer seems a bit silly. removing the mixer from the space would make sense, but maybe I can can think of something to give me the two computers and maybe 2 other inputs from the keys? Would be nice to not have to have to set cubase up to bring in these sources, but I guess I could live with that? More tricky than I thought, logistics wise.
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Can you punch through a wall to shorten the path? I did this with a 13A double socket surface mount back to back on the wall. Mainly to get RJ45 network cables through but I could also run a mic in another room and escape a noisy desktop.

I can see the value of the mixer but do you need 24 channels? Monitor controller perhaps?

Dave.
 
Just to hand, that's all. Soundcraft LX7 - the others we have (2 x versions of X32 and an M32) are even bigger. I just wonder if I can get away with a rack mount 1U mixer I have somewhere? Not sure sonically - but it would have the ability to feed the monitor system with some extra inputs and be fitted into the desk? Distance is as direct as it can be really - under the floor then up at both ends! I'll perhaps buy a few and try?
 
I've had the computer in a separate room in 2 studio builds now with no problems running USB2 or Firewire over 5m provided decent cables are used. In fact VGA video was probably the fussiest signal as the first cables I tried showed a fuzzy picture with ghosting all over the place. In the first room I had the cables running under the floor to the mixer in the centre of the room while in the current room they run around the edge (but the mixer is close to the front wall in this room).
 
jamesperrett said:
I've had the computer in a separate room in 2 studio builds now with no problems running USB2 or Firewire over 5m provided decent cables are used. In fact VGA video was probably the fussiest signal as the first cables I tried showed a fuzzy picture with ghosting all over the place. In the first room I had the cables running under the floor to the mixer in the centre of the room while in the current room they run around the edge (but the mixer is close to the front wall in this room).
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Hi James, 'ked up VGA signals had to have been a miswire, diss' or short. I made up a VGA-VGA extension some years ago from 2x 15mtrs of shielded CAT 5e (because I thought you needed all 15 pins connected. You don't!) and it worked fine.

The racked line mixer should be fine. Synth sounds are not exactly 'hi fi' ?

Dave.
 
ecc83 said:
Hi James, 'ked up VGA signals had to have been a miswire, diss' or short.
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They were just very cheap cables which looked far too skinny to have the co-axial cores that ought to be present for the RGB signals. They might have been OK at the original 640x480 VGA resolution but certainly didn't work for 1024 x 768. Even good cables showed a slight softening of the display compared to a digital link.
 
jamesperrett said:
They were just very cheap cables which looked far too skinny to have the co-axial cores that ought to be present for the RGB signals. They might have been OK at the original 640x480 VGA resolution but certainly didn't work for 1024 x 768. Even good cables showed a slight softening of the display compared to a digital link.
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Ok, but "ghosting" is usually associated with very poor termination or a cable that is a long way from 75 Ohms. Anyway, we know 'digital' is always better!

Dave.
 
Unless you’re way into playing the mixer faders like an instrument and as long as you’ve got the inputs to spare, just make the jump and dump the thing.

You said the computer is always on anyway. Make a default project or template or whatever Cubase does that has your synth input armed and monitoring. Then all you have to do is open a new project and go and if you decide to keep what you’re playing, just hit record. That’s a lot better than jamming, getting all into playing, and then having to stop to load up the program and maybe just lose the flow in the process.

I don’t think you said what rack mixer you’re working with, but it honestly doesn’t take much and as long as you dial it so that the computers clip before it does, it’ll be fine on the monitor side of things.
 
It would seem that making the jump to no mixer should be the sensible move and will probably work for me once I get used to not being able to grab a real fader and turn it down when the phone rings - and have to use a mouse. Although I could probably just lower the channel gain on the interface if I really needed to do that. I'll give it a stab and see how I get on before mangling the audio a bit with the rack mixer - which for the life of me I cannot remember the brand - used on the video side of things at the moment.
 
" mangling the audio a bit with the rack mixer" Honestly Rob, even the cheapest Behringer mixer is just going to have about 3 op amps in the signal path and I doubt you will hear any increase in noise or distortion from those.

Dave.
 
Or maybe just a small USB controller. You can get Korg NanoKontrol for like pocket change nowadays.

I do see where it’s not great for hearing the other machine, though. Like if you never really want to record from the video comp to the audio one (why would you?) there’s no reason to waste the inputs and definitely no reason to have to mess with getting it through Cubase. Some interfaces have their own software mixer that allows direct monitoring of individual inputs. As much as I usually hate those things, it sure might help you, if you’ve got the inputs to spare.
 
Well - I've removed the walls, windows and door, and the two rooms are now one, and I've uncovered all kinds of things that needed fixing. The new roof is on because of what I thought was a small leak, but it wasn't. It was a big one, and the water ran over the top of the inner skin, and down the outside of the plasterboard. One of the layers is 9mm MDF, which I like in the usual plasterboard sandwich because you can screw into it properly. So the plasterboard has bubbled and lost strength in some areas and the MDF has soaked up water from the bottom. One of the ceilings has dropped about an inch in the middle and the plasterboard needs replacing where some of the screws fixing it to the studs have pulled through.I'm unable to run the cables through the space between the inner structure and the outer - which I dis when building, but of course I now have no access to the cavity - so I've put down timber on neoprene, and have a new raised floor. Lost about 70mm of height but I can live with that, and feed the cables through the space between the timber strips. The extra layer of wall sheeting has messed the dimension up and my plan was for a machine room which now means buying a new door as I've lost just enough to make them not fit!


I've been savage with the old kit and lots is going to the waste disposal. No point keeping it - just obsolete stuff that I worked out has been in a rack for 12 years and never been used once! The LX7 is definitely going - no need for it now I have got used to not having a hardware mixer.

Anybody watch NCIS? I'm thinking that I quite like that strange orange colour the walls are painted in the headquarters - seems to be two tones of orange/tan colour I think. Maybe I can get it matched at the paint store?

Last weird thing - I'm thinking I might paint the end walls green - so I can do the green screen things I do in my other studio, in the new one - having both the video side of my work and audio all in one place?

What seemed a simple job has become quite complicated. Repair the old one is taking more time than I expected - 3 full days so far and I reckon perhaps another 3. So far, the repair costs and the new floor have soaked up £400 just about.
 
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