Cheap VS Expensive Soundcard

jojo169

New member
Hi guys, I just make a comparison between relatively cheap soundcard Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 and more expensive Apogee Ensemble Firewire. I record my guitar amp using SM57 and all the cables I use is industry standard such as Mogami and Neutrik. And surprisingly the result is identical, they are the same even when I email my friend about this he agree that he cannot tell the difference.

Is it right if I conclude that $250 Focusrite has the same audio quality to $2500 Apogee Ensemble? What do you guys think about it? Or maybe I did mistake with the comparing method..
 
Hi,
There's a difference between being identical and not being able to hear a difference.
Usually the more you spend on gear the less obvious the difference is, if there is one.
With audio interfaces you're probably paying, mostly, for the quality of the conversion and preamplifiers which is going to be very difficult to A/B against something that's already of a pretty good standard, like Focusrite gear.
However, if there was a way to record a 20-30 track session where everything is identical, except the interface, the differences might become apparent.

Say the focusrite preamps had a slightly louder self noise or it's converters were slightly less accurate or something...It might be such a small difference that it's barely audible or not audible at all comparing one track,
but after layering up multiple tracks it might start to become audible.

It's the same as comparing two different analog mixing consoles.
You might not hear a difference doing single-track voice over work on console A and console B,
but if you took a 32 track digital mix and ran it through two different 32 channel consoles I expect most people would be able to hear a difference.

In short there will be a difference but, to most of us, it'll be hard to hear.
 
You recorded a GUITAR AMP?!! Holy crap on a cracker!

THE quietest guitar amp in the world (made most likely by my old firm) will have a 'self noise' no better than 30dB A SPL. Plug in the quietest of guitars and that will worsen to 40-50dB my bet.
Then, even run totally 'clean' the jack to speaker distortion level will not be below 1%THD and likely ten times that.

Bottom line: You cannot test for 'quality' with a shit source. Similarly you need monitors in at least the $3k each class to stand any chance of hearing the subtle differences (IF they exist) and in a bloody good room. OR some pretty fantastic, like half a bag, cans.

Oh and yes, levels must be matched to better than 0.1dB.

This does not mean the super expensive kit is a rip of (mostly not!) because for 'professional' purposes studios need gear that is at the cutting edge of the art. There is a slight analogy with 96kHz recording. There has never been a truly valid test AFAIK* that shows any audible improvement over 44.1kHz but for the last word and 'just in case' pros will use it.

*Yes, I know there is a case for 96k when high level, high frequencies are involved but that is rare. Also 96 k gives lower latency but at a cost.

Dave.
 
I always smile at "industry standard Mogami cable". Cable is easily damaged or tough. They oddly sound the same.

The thing to remember with audio is that some things are technically superior - they really do their job better than others. The real killer is how do you know?

Let's assume at one end you have a microphone. The problem with swapping it for another and hearing 'better' is probably down to the speakers or headphones at the other end. Are they good enough to reveal the difference? You really don't know. Dave got it right when he wondered about the guitar amp. With such a noisy instrument as a guitar, especially one connected with a cascade of fx boxes, are you really expecting to hear differences so subtle? Mics in these situations are just gizmos with internal EQ - they might be dull, or bright, or have boosts or cuts at certain frequencies. No best - just more or less appropriate.
 
As you've found, there's an amazingly small difference in sound quality between competently engineered interfaces these days. As Dave says, a more demanding source might highlight any differences a little better - especially something that can deliver ultrasonic signals which would then test the anti-alias filtering. The more expensive interfaces tend to be more usable with sensibly designed controls and better quality hardware. They are also slightly quieter with lower jitter but you need really good monitoring to be able to hear the difference.

The other important aspect of an audio interface is how well the associated software is written. Some drivers are better than others and some software control panels are difficult to use while others are far more logical. Are the drivers reliable and kept up to date (and for how long will they be kept up to date)?
 
Another factor affecting price could be build quality. There may be little difference in the sound, but the more expensive unit may have a vastly better build and might last longer.
 
I'm convinced that in the home recording arena, you cannot tell the difference in audio quality. There are too many other variables affecting the sound before the interface comes into play. I used to have the cheapest of the cheap and the most expensive interfaces: Phonic Helix FW mixer and Lavry's. There was a small difference, I struggled to really hear it. I'm sure the difference was in the analog portion and not the converters.
 
I'm convinced that in the home recording arena, you cannot tell the difference in audio quality. There are too many other variables affecting the sound before the interface comes into play. I used to have the cheapest of the cheap and the most expensive interfaces: Phonic Helix FW mixer and Lavry's. There was a small difference, I struggled to really hear it. I'm sure the difference was in the analog portion and not the converters.

Our history is similar. Son and I have used an M-A2496 fed from a Behringer X802 mixer then an A&H Zed 10. Then a Behringer BCA2000, sometimes an M-A Fast track pro, Tascam us144 and an NI KA6.

Sources were mic afront amps and acoustic guitar. Bit of vocals tiny bit of clarinet. Over some 6 years of such messings, the sound quality of the kit was never an issue. Monitored on Tannoy Reveal A5s in a pretty dead, small bedroom.

Son also loved recording with a Teac A3440 and how bad technically is THAT compared to the meanest audio interface!

Dave.
 
If you are recording "at home" and not in a purpose-built studio, the chance that you have a noise floor (and, certainly, from my own experience) the kind of performers and performance where the subtleties of the interface quality makes a difference is slim to none. Especially a guitar amp, as [MENTION=89697]ecc83[/MENTION] notes.

If you get the next Adele in for a vocal and have the perfect room and a mic that is a whole lot better than an SM57 (i.e./e.g., for a detailed, upper or full-range source), *maybe* it will make a difference some can hear.

There is the valid argument about longevity and reliability, but most of our home equipment gets relatively little use compared to a working, busy studio. Reasonable care and managing environment (dust, heat, humidity) can make that also a negligible factor, though it does pay to note that in reviews IMO.

Focusrite sells a crapload of interfaces into the home recording market because they meet the needs of many.
 
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