After many years of digital, I am dragging out my old tape gear just because I want to have something new (old?) to mess around with. I have an Audio Technica RMX64 portastudio and an Otari 2 track reel to reel. I was given the Otari 8 or 10 years ago and haven't ever used it with the portastudio for bouncing before. I will be recording tracks on the portastudio and bouncing to/from the Otari. The RMX64 has Dolby B and C, the Otari has none and I don't have any outboard noise reduction gear. Can anyone offer advise as to whether I should use noise reduction and when I should have that on or off?
trying to decide when and if to use Dolby
- Thread starter drembo
- Start date
Don't know anything about the Otari, but from the pic it looks OK?
Is it half track? Will it do 15 ips?
If yes to both, then it prob doesn't need NR.
Record whatever on the AT, using the NR of your choice. Mix down to the Otari, with NR OFF. Copy back to the AT (fewer tracks ?) with NR OFF. Add more tracks with NR ON. Repeat. Do not decode the Dolby until all finished. The Otari at 15 ips should add so little noise, and you've done minimal encode/decode cycles, that the final result should be fine.
But try it. What do your ears say?
Geoff
Is it half track? Will it do 15 ips?
If yes to both, then it prob doesn't need NR.
Record whatever on the AT, using the NR of your choice. Mix down to the Otari, with NR OFF. Copy back to the AT (fewer tracks ?) with NR OFF. Add more tracks with NR ON. Repeat. Do not decode the Dolby until all finished. The Otari at 15 ips should add so little noise, and you've done minimal encode/decode cycles, that the final result should be fine.
But try it. What do your ears say?
Geoff
Thanks Geoff. That's what I figured, and yes, the Otari is a half track capable of 15 ips. Of course, I could have just tried it to see what sounds best, but I have had house guests for the last 4 days and have not been able to get back out into the studio. So, instead, I just think about things as I fall asleep.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
I have an Otari MX 5050 BIII...no NR...no problem.
Throw some EMTEC/BASF 468 on it...at 15 ips the sound is super clean if the deck is properly calibrated.
NR is not a requirement....if anything, the lower grade NR types screw up the audio more than they helps, IMO...but then, on lower grade decks, even the lower grade NR is a necessary evil if you want to clean things up a bit.
Throw some EMTEC/BASF 468 on it...at 15 ips the sound is super clean if the deck is properly calibrated.
NR is not a requirement....if anything, the lower grade NR types screw up the audio more than they helps, IMO...but then, on lower grade decks, even the lower grade NR is a necessary evil if you want to clean things up a bit.
bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
While I like the idea of skipping redundant decoding/encoding I worry that this could alter the alignment of the level dependent NR processing.
jpmorris
Tape Wolf
Yeah, you're altering the signal between encoding and decoding. I'm not sure how well that would work. I suppose it's worth trying, though...
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
I would just leave the NR on at the portastudio as you normally used it before the Otari.
The signal going to the Otari will not need anything done to it....everything will happen at the portastudio, going out and coming back in.
IOW...the NR (how ever you are using it) is applied only while the signal is in the portastudio...it has nothing to do with the signal coming out of the portastudio and going to the Otari and back from the Otari.
The signal going to the Otari will not need anything done to it....everything will happen at the portastudio, going out and coming back in.
IOW...the NR (how ever you are using it) is applied only while the signal is in the portastudio...it has nothing to do with the signal coming out of the portastudio and going to the Otari and back from the Otari.
Yes, interesting point. Need to try it.
However, the Dolby is set up for a partic machine, but you'd expect a tape recorded with Dolby to decode OK on another machine?
Also, the setting on any given machine would still work OK with different tapes, which might have an effect on the recording similar to the difference caused by the use of the Otari?
May be totally viable??
Geoff
However, the Dolby is set up for a partic machine, but you'd expect a tape recorded with Dolby to decode OK on another machine?
Also, the setting on any given machine would still work OK with different tapes, which might have an effect on the recording similar to the difference caused by the use of the Otari?
May be totally viable??
Geoff
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
I'm saying use the Dolby NR same as you always did (on or off).
If you recorded tracks to the portastudio with it on...then just leave it like that...and bounce to the Otari.
If you recorded tracks to the portastudio with it off...then just leave it like that...and bounce to the Otari.
Now...if you are asking should you still leave the Dolby on when coming back from the Otari, if those tracks were originally done with Dolby...?...that's your choice, same as it was when you originally recorded the tracks to the poratstudio...and you could try it both ways....Dolby on for the first pass on the portastudio...and again Dolby on when you bounce them back from the Otaru, or Dolby off when you bounce them back from the Otari.
I wouldn't get into some kind of "half-Dolby" scenario between the portastudio and the Otari...like on for tracking, off for bouncing to Otari, on for bouncing back...etc....but it really is very easy to try it a few ways and let your ears guide you.
Speaking of "Dolby"...
jpmorris
Tape Wolf
I wouldn't get into some kind of "half-Dolby" scenario between the portastudio and the Otari...like on for tracking, off for bouncing to Otari, on for bouncing back...etc....but it really is very easy to try it a few ways and let your ears guide you.
Yeah, one of the proposals seemed to involve submixing the Dolby stuff without decoding it first, and then decoding the combined track during final mixdown. I don't know exactly what that would do but it seems far outside the design specifications.
lonewhitefly
Active member
NR is a personal choice I'd say ... I tend to avoid it unless tape hiss is getting in the way of the music. If you're bouncing on 4-track cassette, chances are that might be the case. Of course (as mentioned above), if you record with NR on then you want to play back with NR on ... unless you're looking for something unusual (recording something with NR on and played back with it off can give you an interesting hissy-pumping effect ... though recording without NR and playing back with it on sounds really bad in my experience).
bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
Dolby is level dependent. If it doesn't come back off the tape at the same level it went on it will not track correctly.
You could be right, but I'm not sure.
Firstly, the way that Pre-Rec cassettes are duplicated involves the creation of a master tape, which is - I'm sure - already dolby encoded. This tape is then repeatedly copied at many times normal speed (x32 at least ?) onto cassette tape on another machine. Levels must be different from original recording?
Secondly, the dual cassette decks that do high-speed dub (twice speed) generally (in my experience) perform the high speed dub with dolby disabled, so they copy the tape undecoded, and the ones I've copied like that have decoded later perfectly OK.
Still worth trying the copy with dolby OFF??
Geoff
Firstly, the way that Pre-Rec cassettes are duplicated involves the creation of a master tape, which is - I'm sure - already dolby encoded. This tape is then repeatedly copied at many times normal speed (x32 at least ?) onto cassette tape on another machine. Levels must be different from original recording?
Secondly, the dual cassette decks that do high-speed dub (twice speed) generally (in my experience) perform the high speed dub with dolby disabled, so they copy the tape undecoded, and the ones I've copied like that have decoded later perfectly OK.
Still worth trying the copy with dolby OFF??
Geoff
bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
I'm pretty sure.
If they are duplicated from a Dolby encoded master without decoding-encoding then the machines must be calibrated so the level on the dupes is the same as the level on the master.
Because they are calibrated to match the recorded levels to the original.
Experimentation is a good thing, but this is not unknown territory. If you change the level Dolby won't track properly.
MrUserNameIV
SenselessActsOfCreation
At this point, tape, tube or analogue are pretty much just effects, self aware ones even... So whatever sounds right to you. It's going to touch digital at some point, even if you release it on vinyl, so there really isn't any rule anymore. Try it with and without and see what you like: What brings out the character of the instrument that's playing. Your ears are what's right. Period.
famous beagle
Well-known member
First of all ... the ATRMX64! What a beast! I had one for a while that I bought off CL for $60, supposedly in good working condition. It had issues, and I tried for a year to get it running smoothly, but I never could. I ended up selling it for parts/repair on ebay for $100, so it worked out ok.
But that was an awesome machine ... even has phantom power(!), which is extremely rare for a cassette 4-track.
Regarding NR, I've always been a manual-reader, and in every manual (Tascam, etc.) I've read, they always say to leave the NR on always unless you're playing back a tape on which NR wasn't used. So that's what I do. I did a few comparisons once --- recording the same thing with and without it --- and to me the only difference I heard was more hiss without it. The highs still sounded fine to me when I had it on, so I just always use it (unless, of course, I'm playing back a tape that didn't use it).
But that was an awesome machine ... even has phantom power(!), which is extremely rare for a cassette 4-track.
Regarding NR, I've always been a manual-reader, and in every manual (Tascam, etc.) I've read, they always say to leave the NR on always unless you're playing back a tape on which NR wasn't used. So that's what I do. I did a few comparisons once --- recording the same thing with and without it --- and to me the only difference I heard was more hiss without it. The highs still sounded fine to me when I had it on, so I just always use it (unless, of course, I'm playing back a tape that didn't use it).