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Thread: TEAC 80-8/Scotch 206 shedding?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roozter View Post

    My best guess after inspection was that the tape had degraded over the years, and its edges were scraping on the take up reel. So maybe we worked an old tape too hard on one section of the reel for too long. The amount of flaking is concerning, but I dont think its sticky. How should I proceed?
    Are you talking sticky shed or flaky shed?
    I've got some scotch, not sure of the number, but at the heads and tails chunks fall off. Thankfully I have long blank sections before the recordings.

    But with that symptom, you actually have oxide falling off of the backing. It don't gum up the heads, just falls off.

    No cure i know of for that issue.

    I just transferred it to protools and the tape? Well, its for historical memories.


    Ps. Don't be so hard on the alleged trolls. If they were truly assholes, you'd just be ignored. At least you're getting some dialog.
    And there's nothing wrong with getting new tape.
    Peace.

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    The other forum pointed out that if I was running a small section of old tape hard with lots of RW/FF I may have had the tape shift slightly in the transport and start shedding oxide off the edges. That's why once I loosened some tension and tightened it back up it slowed down a little and there was less flaking. Just putting the tape back through the transport correctly should be enough to solve the issue in the short term. It could be the track 1 heads on the machine catching the edge, but my machine was serviced by TEAC and the heads were fine when we started. I stopped everything once I saw the flaking/shedding so that no further damage could be done until I got it figured out. I did not want a gummed up machine.

    I specifically stated I had other reels. They are NOS. I specifically stated my other sealed NOS 1/4" reels did the same thing at first and then it just stopped. This is one used 206 reel I have, so it does make sense it would be degraded somewhat, but it's still in fairly good condition.

    So why would I take my good NOS reels and risk getting them chewed up because something is off a little bit on the transport? And if its fixable why chuck good tape or spend the money on new tape? I'm trying to diagnose what the issue is for the sake of getting more experience, and contributing to the forum. "Buy new tape" isn't helping anyone.

    I was only trying to deduce the source of the issue, which there could have been a few. Some of us are disabled and cant always throw money at things so we work with what we have at hand. So when this guy, who totally shit all over me trying to get this tape in the first place a few years back is telling me just to buy new tape (again) it's a little aggravating. 206/207 is reliable. My machine is set up for it. I dont have money to have it worked on AND buy tape, so It was cheaper to get the NOS 206/207 in the long run, and I can guarantee you any experienced poster on here would buy up all of my NOS reels if I put them up for sale right now, if only just to flip them on ebay for more money. Some analog users consider that the tape. So no, no overreaction. He knows the situation, and I've explained this before. I stopped posting a few years ago when he was shitting on me for trying to get the tape, and now I come back looking for legitimate help, and get shit on for having it?

    What a joke.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roozter View Post
    Searched the archives on another forum and found all the information I needed, and sure enough my theory on the issue was correct. Following your advice would have wasted my money and tape. The tape is not sticky, the machine is fine, the edge shedding is normal given the circumstances, and all I need to do is inspect my heads to be sure.

    I really loved this forum at one point, but if I'm going to get lazy answers with minimal thought put in to it, I'd rather not waste my time trying to contribute to this forum at all. You guys are pretty much just trolling, and its obnoxious. Clearly it was valid question that went beyond "just get new tape", and an experienced tape user could have easily answered it with the information I gave. So I'd really appreciate if you avoided my threads completely, miroslav, and I'll give you the same courtesy.
    get new tape is the only correct answer

    do you really want to be using tape that is shedding
    drop outs and weak sound at times
    unbalanced channels if the edge sheds more
    keep cleaning the heads to remove the shedding

    you are stuck on stubborn wanting us to confirm your choice to use damaged tape that is worn out

    just get some new tape and stop whining

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roozter View Post
    The other forum pointed out that if I was running a small section of old tape hard with lots of RW/FF I may have had the tape shift slightly in the transport and start shedding oxide off the edges. That's why once I loosened some tension and tightened it back up it slowed down a little and there was less flaking. Just putting the tape back through the transport correctly should be enough to solve the issue in the short term. It could be the track 1 heads on the machine catching the edge, but my machine was serviced by TEAC and the heads were fine when we started. I stopped everything once I saw the flaking/shedding so that no further damage could be done until I got it figured out. I did not want a gummed up machine.

    I specifically stated I had other reels. They are NOS. I specifically stated my other sealed NOS 1/4" reels did the same thing at first and then it just stopped. This is one used 206 reel I have, so it does make sense it would be degraded somewhat, but it's still in fairly good condition.

    So why would I take my good NOS reels and risk getting them chewed up because something is off a little bit on the transport? And if its fixable why chuck good tape or spend the money on new tape? I'm trying to diagnose what the issue is for the sake of getting more experience, and contributing to the forum. "Buy new tape" isn't helping anyone.

    I was only trying to deduce the source of the issue, which there could have been a few. Some of us are disabled and cant always throw money at things so we work with what we have at hand. So when this guy, who totally shit all over me trying to get this tape in the first place a few years back is telling me just to buy new tape (again) it's a little aggravating. 206/207 is reliable. My machine is set up for it. I dont have money to have it worked on AND buy tape, so It was cheaper to get the NOS 206/207 in the long run, and I can guarantee you any experienced poster on here would buy up all of my NOS reels if I put them up for sale right now, if only just to flip them on ebay for more money. Some analog users consider that the tape. So no, no overreaction. He knows the situation, and I've explained this before. I stopped posting a few years ago when he was shitting on me for trying to get the tape, and now I come back looking for legitimate help, and get shit on for having it?

    What a joke.


    Sorry but buy new tape is the only sensible answer.

    I had 40 years experience using tape before i went digital.
    If you like fighting problems to save a few bucks then ignore the good advice you have gotten here.

  5. #15
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    @miroslav @witzend @Blue Jinn


    the guy is a tightwad who does not care about reliability or quality but just wants us to confirm that he can keep using old tape

    THE SAD LITTLE TRUTH IS THAT TAPE HAS A LIFETIME AND YOURS IS DYING

    get some new tape is the only correct answer whether you like it or not
    and dissing the folks here by calling the trolls because you dont like the correct answer makes you look stupider

    ---------- Update ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by miroslav View Post
    If you do enough Google searches, you will find some folk saying they have problems with all that Scotch tape, including 206...and then others say they never had problems.

    Bottom line here...the OP specifically HAS a shedding problem...which he apparently thinks is solved by checking the heads occasionally.
    I can't figure out what one thing has to do with the other....???
    The issue is the tape shedding...not the heads or checking them for any crud buildup.

    So the question is...how much do you value whatever it is your are recording on tape that is already shedding...?
    If there is little value and you don't mind the risk of dropouts and potentially the whole tape becomes basically useless at some point...then go on and keep using it...otherwise, throw it out and get some good tape.
    I find it odd that anyone would balk at the idea of buying a couple of reels of good/new tape, when it is readily available...and consider that a "waste of money".
    its both

    he has to keep cleaning the heads
    and his tape will have drop outs uneven channels and other problems

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roozter View Post
    The other forum pointed out that if I was running a small section of old tape hard with lots of RW/FF I may have had the tape shift slightly in the transport and start shedding oxide off the edges. That's why once I loosened some tension and tightened it back up it slowed down a little and there was less flaking. Just putting the tape back through the transport correctly should be enough to solve the issue in the short term. It could be the track 1 heads on the machine catching the edge, but my machine was serviced by TEAC and the heads were fine when we started. I stopped everything once I saw the flaking/shedding so that no further damage could be done until I got it figured out. I did not want a gummed up machine.

    I specifically stated I had other reels. They are NOS. I specifically stated my other sealed NOS 1/4" reels did the same thing at first and then it just stopped. This is one used 206 reel I have, so it does make sense it would be degraded somewhat, but it's still in fairly good condition.

    So why would I take my good NOS reels and risk getting them chewed up because something is off a little bit on the transport? And if its fixable why chuck good tape or spend the money on new tape? I'm trying to diagnose what the issue is for the sake of getting more experience, and contributing to the forum. "Buy new tape" isn't helping anyone.

    I was only trying to deduce the source of the issue, which there could have been a few. Some of us are disabled and cant always throw money at things so we work with what we have at hand. So when this guy, who totally shit all over me trying to get this tape in the first place a few years back is telling me just to buy new tape (again) it's a little aggravating. 206/207 is reliable. My machine is set up for it. I dont have money to have it worked on AND buy tape, so It was cheaper to get the NOS 206/207 in the long run, and I can guarantee you any experienced poster on here would buy up all of my NOS reels if I put them up for sale right now, if only just to flip them on ebay for more money. Some analog users consider that the tape. So no, no overreaction. He knows the situation, and I've explained this before. I stopped posting a few years ago when he was shitting on me for trying to get the tape, and now I come back looking for legitimate help, and get shit on for having it?

    What a joke.


    Please point to where/who was "shitting" on you a few years back around here.
    I think you view any advice that doesn't meet your expectations as "shitting" on you....but maybe you're just living in denial.

    Fist off...you claim your machines was recently serviced...but now with this tape shedding issue, you're messing with the transport tension in order to get around a chronic tape problem. Well done.
    Second...just because someone sold you "NOS" tape...it doesn't mean it will behave the same as when it was new/fresh. You have no idea even how that person stored that "NOS" tapes for years before selling it to you.
    So you have this tape sitting in boxes, unused, and you think that it will last like that forever, especially when you are already seeing issues with one reel.
    It matters not that it's a "used" reel. I've got 20-year old used reels that play smooth as butter, because they were not prone to any kind of SSS issues.
    It isn't just about them being "NOS" or "unused" that makes a difference, it's about the formulation and what happens to it over time...even sitting in the boxes.

    So...you are now monkeying around with a deck that was recently serviced...trying to deduce if you can minimize the tape that is shedding, and you're afraid to open one of the "NOS" tapes because it might to do same.
    Just bite the bullet and crack open one and see what happens...but of course, you've already messed with the transport, so do you know how to put it back or maybe you should have it serviced again so that it is correctly setup before you try any more tape.

    Again...the simple, obvious solution is to buy a reel of current production, new tape...THAT will be your only true reference point to know is it the tape or the deck, but then, you've already messed with the deck tension from where it was when serviced.

    Sorry dude, that's not "shitting" on you...that's "reality" and "common sense".
    Trying to help you here...but you want to get pissy because you're rejecting that.

    PS...if that "other site" you're getting your info from has the words "tape" and "heads" in the title...many of those guys are very misguided confused and living in some alternate tape use dimension.
    Heck...if you listen to them long enough, they will tell you to use car polish to "fix" the tape "SSS"...though recently, one of the main pushers of that idiocy has finally thrown in the towel and admitted that car polish doesn't really save the tape, and has no more value than temporarily baking tape...though the car polish method is about 10 times messier.

    Here...read this along with the link I posted earlier...it's all info about SSS and which tapes are affected.

    Audio-Rescue | Audio-Rescue | Sticky-Shed & Archival Shed

    Tape Trail

    -Degrading Tapes – Richard L Hess—Audio Tape Restoration Tips & Notes

    You may not be seeing the sticky goo...but your tape is shedding. So how much is your music worth to you, and do you really want to mess with a recently serviced deck, to accommodate tape that is shedding?
    That's like having your car alignment adjusted for unevenly worn out tires....it doesn't work, and as soon as you put on good, new tires, the wonky adjustment will mess them up too.

    Do what you want...

  7. #17
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    +1000

    what miroslav said

  8. #18
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    NOS tape doesn't guarantee it is in as new condition. SSS occurs from absorption of moisture over time so even correctly stored, sealed tape will eventually absorb enough moisture to deteriorate the binding if it is a tape formulation susceptible to the problem. Especially old formulations like Scotch 206 have had decades and decades to deteriorate.

    I recently opened three 1/2" Ampex 456 tapes (NOS) from their original sealed packaging dated mid 91 expecting SSS and no doubt, it only took a hundred feet or so of tape to gum up the tape transport with gunk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chilljam View Post

    I recently opened three 1/2" Ampex 456 tapes (NOS) from their original sealed packaging dated mid 91 expecting SSS and no doubt, it only took a hundred feet or so of tape to gum up the tape transport with gunk.
    I just scored a NOS 2" reel of Quantegy 456, 1999 vintage...should be fine.
    Pretty much any of the "Quantegy" labeled reels are OK, since the transition from the Ampex name happened after that period of SSS tapes.
    There is also some "transitional" Ampex labeled tape that could be fine...but you really have to check the date of manufacture.
    Late '90s tends to be fine...early/mid '90s...probably not.

    I had several reels of 1/4" Ampex that I bought back in 1990, and they sat and sat for a bunch of years because I didn't need them. When I finally opened one to try it out...instant screech-n-scrape. I didn't even bother to let the reels spin for more than 30 seconds...it wasn't going to get better deeper into the reel.
    So...I just tossed it out...but I still have a handful of the 1/4" Quantegy 456...it's all good.

    The stuff I use mostly on the 2" deck is 499, and for the most part, it's all been good, whether it's Ampex or Quantegy.

    My favorite stuff is still the original BASF/EMTEC 911...that stuff just seems to hold up. I've got reels that are 30 years old, and no issues...in 1/4", 1/2" and even a handful of 2", which I just happened to come across, but it's rare to find any NOS BASF/EMTEC 2".

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    Sound like the OP has heads that have a groove worn in them if he's getting "shed flying down on to the machine, and piling up quickly". His tape lifters also may not be working correctly if he hears it in his headphones. If his worn heads are the cause of the shedding then he risks tape edge damage-track 1 and 8 and the tape skewing in and out of the groove causing fading audio on the edge tracks. Re- lapping can fix that- no amount of new tape will fix it. How badly are the heads worn? Can you feel a lip at the edges of the tape width groove worn in the heads? If his machine was "serviced by Teac",it was done over 6 years ago,because there has been no service at Teac- all service is outsourced- since Gibson bought them in 2013. As long as the Op is doing his own recording. it's fine if he fiddles around with his machine,but a paying client won't tolerate it.

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