Tascam MSR-16 tape lifters not working

radambe

New member
I’ve just bought this MSR16 and immediately had it serviced/aligned, I get it back from my tech and installed at the studio, fire it up and notice right away that the tape lifters aren’t working at all. My tech is now on vacation and I thought I’d post here in the meantime while I’m waiting to hear back from him after the break.

When I hit FF or RW, the lifters don’t move at all. It doesn’t look like they’re trying to lift the tape but can’t, they look like there’s nothing driving them to move whatsoever. I can reach in with a qtip and manually make them move, and when I pull the qtip they spring back into their resting position. So I can move them freely, and they are attached to something that pulls them back into place, but they literally do not even budge a millimeter when I hit FF or RW.

Anyone have any thoughts on what I might try to check on my own while I’m waiting to get the machine back into the tech’s shop? This is incredibly frustrating as the machine was just serviced and given a clean bill of health, and is non-trivial to move in and out of my studio....has to be disconnected, be lifted back out of the rack, carried down a narrow flight of steps, loaded into car, etc etc all of which I just finished doing twice to have the machine serviced after I bought it.

Any help would be much appreciated!
 
First thing I would do is pull the front dress panel off and check to see if the lifter solenoid is getting power. The solenoid is an electromagnet that, when powered, magnetically pulls it plunger in which, through a linkage, actuates the lifters. When you place the machine in FFWD or REW the Control PCB sends +24V to the lifter solenoid. Because your lifters move freely when manually actuated, I don’t suspect the lifter assembly is binding or missing parts (but you’ll know for sure when you pull the dress panel off and manually actuate the lifters...you should see the plunger retracting and extending at the solenoid). And because you don’t mention any other problems with anything I don’t as of yet suspect a problem with the +24V power supply. So that’s why I’d start with measuring for +24V at the solenoid when the machine is in FFWD or REW. If you have power but the solenoid is not moving, then the solenoid is dead. If you don’t have power then start tracing the two wires that go to the solenoid back to where they come from and look for damage or maybe its as simple as your tech inadvertently unplugged the solenoid or unpluggednit and forgot to plug it back in. If you trace it all the way back to where the wires connect on the other end and find no damage or disconnection, measure for continuity over those two conductors from the solenoid back to the termination point and verify good continuity. Let’s start with that. If none of that helps then things get more complicated.
 
If it's like the TSR-8, I think the solenoid moves a lever that also forces the pinch roller into position. Does that happen? if so it might be that the linkage is out of position or disconnected somehow. Otherwise, suspect the solenoid being gunked up or not getting power for the reasons Sweetbeats has mentioned. I might be able to give more informed speculation when I get back home in a few days.
 
Thanks sweetbeats and jpmorris! I’ll be back in the studio either NYE or NYD and will try to follow these instructions.

One initial question- by dress panel do you mean the piece that covers the head stack assembly (attached with two hex fasteners) or does dress panel refer to the entire front/face panel of the machine? I should probably try to find a service manual somewhere to familiarize myself a bit.

First thing I would do is pull the front dress panel off and check to see if the lifter solenoid is getting power. The solenoid is an electromagnet that, when powered, magnetically pulls it plunger in which, through a linkage, actuates the lifters. When you place the machine in FFWD or REW the Control PCB sends +24V to the lifter solenoid. Because your lifters move freely when manually actuated, I don’t suspect the lifter assembly is binding or missing parts (but you’ll know for sure when you pull the dress panel off and manually actuate the lifters...you should see the plunger retracting and extending at the solenoid). And because you don’t mention any other problems with anything I don’t as of yet suspect a problem with the +24V power supply. So that’s why I’d start with measuring for +24V at the solenoid when the machine is in FFWD or REW. If you have power but the solenoid is not moving, then the solenoid is dead. If you don’t have power then start tracing the two wires that go to the solenoid back to where they come from and look for damage or maybe its as simple as your tech inadvertently unplugged the solenoid or unpluggednit and forgot to plug it back in. If you trace it all the way back to where the wires connect on the other end and find no damage or disconnection, measure for continuity over those two conductors from the solenoid back to the termination point and verify good continuity. Let’s start with that. If none of that helps then things get more complicated.
 
The pinch roller seems to be working and moving into and out of place as I’d expect. In fact, everything about this machine seems near perfect....except for the lifters not working. When I manually pull one lifter forward into the position it would normally be during fast wind, the other lifter moves with it, and they both snap back into their resting position when I let go. I did not notice the pinch roller moving when I manually move the lifters.

If it's like the TSR-8, I think the solenoid moves a lever that also forces the pinch roller into position. Does that happen? if so it might be that the linkage is out of position or disconnected somehow. Otherwise, suspect the solenoid being gunked up or not getting power for the reasons Sweetbeats has mentioned. I might be able to give more informed speculation when I get back home in a few days.
 
The piece that covers the headstack assembly is the head cover. I’m talking about the whole front face. The metalwork around the reel tables. It’s usually like the top half of the front is a metal panel. That’s the dress panel.
 
Ok thanks for clarifying that. Will report back once I’m back in a few days and can try these suggestions. Thanks again

The piece that covers the headstack assembly is the head cover. I’m talking about the whole front face. The metalwork around the reel tables. It’s usually like the top half of the front is a metal panel. That’s the dress panel.
 
Ignore me, the mechanism is different on the MSR-16 and it does have a separate solenoid specifically for the lifter. Interesting, I assumed the chassis was basically the same as the TSR-8.
 
So I’ve finally gotten back to dig a little deeper into my MSR-16 tape lifter issue, following the very thorough instructions that sweetbeats was kind enough to post.

I found that the lifter solenoid is connected to the small PCB on the left side below the supply reel table, and there are no signs of damage anywhere on that pcb, nor on the pair of conductors connecting it and the solenoid.

I then plugged the machine back into power with the face plate still off (so I could have a clear view of the solenoid in operation or lack thereof). What I found was that the solenoid appeared to be TRYING to retract the plunger but just didn’t quite have the gusto.

Upon discovering this, I powered off the machine and pulled the power plug again, and proceeded to manually push the plunger in on the solenoid to see if I could detect anything out of the ordinary....resistance, etc, anything.

Having worked the plunger in and out several times manually, I powered the machine back up and found that the tape lifters had started to work, albeit very slowly and definitely appeared to be struggling to “make it over the hump” and fully extend out past the sync head. This is WITHOUT tape on the machine, just lifting the takeup side tension roller with my finger to allow RW and FF to activate.

So I threaded a brand new reel of SM911, and found that the lifters were again not activating. If I manually gave them a little bit of help by pushing one of them from behind, they would very lazily actuate all the way and lift the tape from the heads. After doing this a couple of times, the lifters started making it on their own without help from my finger, albeit still very lazily taking a full 2-3 seconds of FF before the tape was lifted from the heads.

Which brings me to the last bit of info I have to report. I was only able to get the lifters just barely working like this in FF mode only. When attempting to do any of this in RW, there just wasn’t enough umph or force there to lift the tape, even with a gentle nudge from my finger. After failing in RW like this, the FF mode began acting the same again but did start working after I have the machine a few start/stops into and out of FF while using my finger to gently nudge the lifters to come out.

I know very little about very few things, but this really does seem like I’ve got a faulty or “failing” solenoid driving my lifters, does it not? That’s just my gut feeling.

If sweetbeats is around and has a moment free, it would be awesome to hear any thoughts that may come up from reading this.

Thank you!
-radambe

First thing I would do is pull the front dress panel off and check to see if the lifter solenoid is getting power. The solenoid is an electromagnet that, when powered, magnetically pulls it plunger in which, through a linkage, actuates the lifters. When you place the machine in FFWD or REW the Control PCB sends +24V to the lifter solenoid. Because your lifters move freely when manually actuated, I don’t suspect the lifter assembly is binding or missing parts (but you’ll know for sure when you pull the dress panel off and manually actuate the lifters...you should see the plunger retracting and extending at the solenoid). And because you don’t mention any other problems with anything I don’t as of yet suspect a problem with the +24V power supply. So that’s why I’d start with measuring for +24V at the solenoid when the machine is in FFWD or REW. If you have power but the solenoid is not moving, then the solenoid is dead. If you don’t have power then start tracing the two wires that go to the solenoid back to where they come from and look for damage or maybe its as simple as your tech inadvertently unplugged the solenoid or unpluggednit and forgot to plug it back in. If you trace it all the way back to where the wires connect on the other end and find no damage or disconnection, measure for continuity over those two conductors from the solenoid back to the termination point and verify good continuity. Let’s start with that. If none of that helps then things get more complicated.
 
Probably not a failing solenoid. They don’t usually fail. You need to measure for DC volts at the solenoid when it is actuating. It should be at or close to +24V.
 
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