Tascam ATR 60 8 - Is it worth it? Help with functionality, please

[Maros]

Hi everyone!

this is my first thread here I hope that will be helpful for other people too

I want to buy my first multitrack - accually on 70% I bought it - I made a deal with a seller and I have one week for change my mind. It is TASCAM ATR 60 8 tape recorder with: (see attached pics)

- 1x TASCAM ES-50 Synchronizer
- 1x TASCAM DX-80S dbx / Professional Noise Reduction
- 1x TASCAM 8 chanel VU meter
- 1x TASCAM ES-51 Synchronizer Control Unit
- Maintance and user manual (but only ATR )
- Cables (see below)

I really need help because of lack of user manuals

My questions:

0. Cost of this was about 2900 Eur. Am I dumb, or I am lucky guy?



1. Is it a good combination for 8 track recording or something is missing?

2. It does not have a remote control RC-65, but is it needed if I have ES50/51?

3. If ES50/51 is enough, could you please describe some fuctionality or send me user manual? For example can I do auto punch record with this unit?

4. Please look at tape heads. They look good for me and machine record/sync./playback well. Sometimes the sound fluctuated but seller told me that it a wrong tape. I believe him for now because I really see small pieces of tape on ground. So tape is reaaly bad.



5. Can this bad tape make problems with rewind? Sometimes reels need a small help with my hand. When I cleaned tape heads, pinchroller, capstan.... it works.

6. Please look at rear panel. There is no cable in Remote control or Function remote. Is it OK? (see question 2 and 3).



7. I have only this cable (ACCESSORY socket on ATR) and cable between ES50 and ES51. Is it enough?


Sorry for lot of question but I searched internet so many times without success. I do NOT have this beuty machine with me right know so ..


THANK YOU SO MUCH!

Maros

 

[jamesperrett]

I don't know much about this particular machine but it looks fairly recent (as tape machines go) and the heads look in good condition as far as I can see. The ATR range were at the top of Tascam's tape machine lineup. However, from the state of the guides, it looks like you've been using sticky tape which really needs to be thrown away. If you want to record on this machine it is best to only use brand new tape. You will need to thoroughly clean the whole tape path before trying to use the machine.

 

[Maros]

I don't know much about this particular machine but it looks fairly recent (as tape machines go) and the heads look in good condition as far as I can see. The ATR range were at the top of Tascam's tape machine lineup. However, from the state of the guides, it looks like you've been using sticky tape which really needs to be thrown away. If you want to record on this machine it is best to only use brand new tape. You will need to thoroughly clean the whole tape path before trying to use the machine.

Thank you and yes! I have already ordered RTM SM911 tape, I think it is suitable for it.

What do you think about using ES50/51 module? It can be used or I need more special cable? Can I do some editting with it or it is a matter of RC-65 for example?

Thanks!

 

[sweetbeats]

I can help with some more detailed answers but it may be a day or so. Stay tuned.

 

[Maros]

I can help with some more detailed answers but it may be a day or so. Stay tuned.

are you waiting for similar configuration like me? I have only 1 week to make a decision.. If it is a bad idea feel free to tell me, but this type of device is not a common so close to my living place..

 

[sweetbeats]

No I’m saying I can give some answers to most of your questions and have documentation.

I’m just busy until tomorrow sometime and won’t have time until then to answer in detail.

 

[Maros]

No I’m saying I can give some answers to most of your questions and have documentation.

I’m just busy until tomorrow sometime and won’t have time until then to answer in detail.

So happy to read this! OK, thank you so much, I am waiting

 

[sweetbeats]

0. Cost of this was about 2900 Eur. Am I dumb, or I am lucky guy?

That is a really hard question to answer, because it all depends on 1. the local market, 2. how bad you want it, and 3. the condition of the heads. Here in my area of the United States I think that machine in that condition (from what I can see) with the included equipment might be more like 1500-2000 euro? But I think such machines are harder to find in Europe. My gut opinion? You didn't steal it, and you didn't get robbed.

1. Is it a good combination for 8 track recording or something is missing?

You have everything there you need to do 8-track multitrack recording, assuming you have the cabling that goes in between the meter module (which also houses the rec/play amplifier cards and other cards) and the DX-8DS noise reduction unit (assuming you want to use the noise reduction).

2. It does not have a remote control RC-65, but is it needed if I have ES50/51?

You don't need either The RC-65 or ES-50/ES-51 to operate the machine. You can do everything at the machine. If you need to remote control the machine, yes you can use the ES-50/ES-51, but understand the ES-50/ES-51 requires you "stripe" (record) SMPTE timecode on one of the 8 tracks (usually track 8), so, while the ES-50/ES-51 functions as a powerful remote control and full-function auto-locator, you only have 7 tracks for recording audio. The timecode recorded on one of the 8 tracks is what the ES-50 "listens" to in order to keep track of the position of the tape.

3. If ES50/51 is enough, could you please describe some fuctionality or send me user manual? For example can I do auto punch record with this unit?

Check your Private Messages.

4. Please look at tape heads. They look good for me and machine record/sync./playback well. Sometimes the sound fluctuated but seller told me that it a wrong tape. I believe him for now because I really see small pieces of tape on ground. So tape is reaaly bad.

There is absolutely now way to know the condition of the heads from a picture. So just be aware anything anybody says here is no gaurantee the heads are great , OR garbage. From what I can see it looks like the machine has typical wear for its age. It has had some significant use, but does not appear to be excessively worn. I don't usually even consider how worn the heads look from a general picture like you posted, unless I can see an open coil, or an obviously uneven wear pattern, because heads can be re-lapped or replaced...the wear you can see from a picture doesn't typically tell you the actual wear...it only tells you if there is something obviously wrong (like an open coil or uneven wear), and guides (another wear surface) can be rotated or relatively easily replaced. The lifter posts, while they can also be replaced or in some cases covered with tubing, are typically much harder to rotate or replace...harder to find, etc. So I look at those as a clue for how much shuttling the machine has done. While this doesn't tell you how much wear the tape heads have experienced, it is just another clue to, in general, how much use a machine has had. So, looking at all those elements, it looks like average wear, significant life left, BUT...again...no gaurantees because the heads could be abused or damaged, maladjusted and prematurely worn, etc. If it records and plays back on all 8 tracks that's a fantastic test. An even better test is to test if it records and plays back within spec as far as the frequency response. That's the bottom line. That still won't tell you if the heads are near end of life, but it DOES tell you if any head coils are "open" or worn through the tip and beyond service. I suspect your machine has a while to go yet before you reach that point, and the good news is those heads were used on the 38, 48, 58, TSR-8 and ATR60-8...so its relatively easy to find used heads with life left, and I even think it is still possible to find new heads. And anyway that's only insurance if for some reason you find one of the heads needs to be replaced soon after all. If I'm right and your machine has normal wear and tear for its age, if you are only using the machine periodically in a project or home studio situation, it should give you many years of service before needing new heads.

Now, as jamesperret mentioned, I also see evidence of sticky shed...and also like he said you need to stop using the tape immediately and THOROUGHLY clean the entire tape path. It is likely the reason the tape "fluctuated" and...

5. Can this bad tape make problems with rewind? Sometimes reels need a small help with my hand. When I cleaned tape heads, pinchroller, capstan.... it works.

...yes...sticky tape can easily bring a tape transport to a grinding halt. Do not use that tape anymore.

6. Please look at rear panel. There is no cable in Remote control or Function remote. Is it OK? (see question 2 and 3).

Yes, there would be nothing plugged in there. You don't have a remote to plug in there.

7. I have only this cable (ACCESSORY socket on ATR) and cable between ES-50 and ES-51. Is it enough?

Correct. The ES-50 connects to the ACCESSORY connector. It is not a "remote control", but a synchronizer/auto-locator, so it does not connect to any "remote" connector. As mentioned above at can be *used* as a remote control, but you have to sacrifice one of the 8-tracks to stripe timecode in order to use it.

Hope that helps.

 

[Maros]

Great explanation, thank you so much! Now it is a more clear for me.

May I have a few questions about ES-50/51 unit? Now I understand, it so sad that I will lost one track, but is there a big crosstalk from timestamps to lets say track 7? I mean, if track no.7 can be still used for audio.

There is also "Tape Lifter" button and when I move with it, nothing happend or I did not see any reaction. Is only for releasing lifters, or?

 

[sweetbeats]

Regarding the timecode and crosstalk, this should not be a problem. Verify in your ES-50 manual, but IIRC you record the timecode at -7 or -10dB, so it is a lower level signal. I never had any problems with crosstalk, and this "striping" of an edge track with timecode is a common practice. It is recommended (or may be required...read the manual) to ensure noise reduction is OFF in both record and playback of timecode. You can control this on your DX-8DS, which has per-channel dbx engage/defeat switches.

Regarding the TAPE LIFTER lever, what does your manual say about it? Just encouraging you to read the manual...this kind of information is in there and easy to find. The lever is for *retracting* the lifters in FFWD/REW mode so you can do a high speed scrub. Just beware to lower the level of your monitor speakers/headphones before retracting the lifters in FFWD/REW.

 

[Maros]

Regarding the TAPE LIFTER lever, what does your manual say about it? Just encouraging you to read the manual...this kind of information is in there and easy to find. The lever is for *retracting* the lifters in FFWD/REW mode so you can do a high speed scrub. Just beware to lower the level of your monitor speakers/headphones before retracting the lifters in FFWD/REW.

sorry for that. I read maintance and service manual, because thats the only manual what I found on the Internet and there is no information about it. I will try it within a few days when I will come for the deck to the seller Thanks!

 

[Maros]

OK Cory, I read the manual about ES-50/51 so do not blame me!

At saturday Im goint to seller location to pick up my Tascam (hopefuly), so I need to test it. Seller has no knowledge about how to get a functionality.

1. With connection I have no problem and everything is understood. I will select track 8 for SMPTE stamps so I will conncet track 8 input with GEN OUT signal from ES-50 unit. Similary, I will connect track 8 output to the ES-50 Master TC input.

2. Now I load a new tape, completely empty. I need to record SMPTE signal to whole tape. OK

3. Now it is a bit confusing because Ive never done it before and I do not have machine next to me.
Should I push REC enable button on track 8 on ATR 60 deck, or ES-50 "press" it automaticaly? I mean small button on panel with rec/sync/playback options. This is not mention in user manual.

4. OK, everything is prepared so I need to push SET UP button on ES-50 module for autocalibration (regard to user manual). There could be a problem what is signalized with red LED. Hope not, but backup battery inside maybe will be dry, and so on. I hope, that this not will be my last stage of testing ES-50/51 module.

5. After succesful autocalibration I need to record sync SMPTE signal to track 8. See question no.3. Tape is clear so I need RE-START option or JAM?
a) If restart I enter 00:00:00 to ES-51 module ->STR -> RUN
b) If JAM, I will press only RUN

And now what? Tape deck switch to record mode automatically and reels start turning? Maybe they will be in fast mode for faster recording to the tape? I saw video with Studer doing it so quick but... maybe Tascam is different.

6. After this moment I understand manual correctly.


Thank you and sorry if my question is stupid but I really do not have my machine with me so I cannot try it before I read something on this forum.

Maros

 

[wkrbee]

The es-50 interface cables come in two configs. Master or Slave, so depending upon your application either you have the right one or wrong one...

 

[sweetbeats]

Maros,

There are no stupid questions, except for the ones you don't ask because you're afraid they are stupid.

Unfortunately I can't be much help with your questions about the specific operation of the ES-50/ES-51. It has been about 12 years since I owned one, and only for a short time and I used it very little. It did not work for my specific application which was trying to slave a Tascam 58 to a computer-based DAW. It didn't work. Your situation is different, but I think you'll need to just try it out once you have the system in your possession.

 

[Maros]

The es-50 interface cables come in two configs. Master or Slave, so depending upon your application either you have the right one or wrong one...

Yes, I think that I have a good cable. One side is ACCESORY plug and second one is Master plug on ES-50. Between ES-50 and ES-51 is common serial cable..

Maros,

There are no stupid questions, except for the ones you don't ask because you're afraid they are stupid.

Unfortunately I can't be much help with your questions about the specific operation of the ES-50/ES-51. It has been about 12 years since I owned one, and only for a short time and I used it very little. It did not work for my specific application which was trying to slave a Tascam 58 to a computer-based DAW. It didn't work. Your situation is different, but I think you'll need to just try it out once you have the system in your possession.

Thats OK. But you know that feeling you want to try something and you cannot, so only you can do is talking about it

If I will find a way to use it, this topic can be splitted and maybe information about it will be useful for someone else.

 

[sweetbeats]

I think that is the right cable you want between the ES-50 and ATR60 to use it the way you want to use it.

And yes...I DO know that feeling (talking about something when I can't yet use it/try it). I get it.

Keep us posted!

 

[seankerns]

I may have missed it earlier in the thread, Maros, but are you actually trying to sync the tape machine to something? If not, you can save yourself a track and some trouble.

 

[CSP]

Maros,

I have not read the entire thread, but if you can return the Teac, and if you can find a unit in GOOD condition, can I suggest that you have a look at the Alesis 8-track ADAT recorder.

The ADAT is not only more compact, the sound quality (it is a digital recorder) should be far superior and not only has analogue in and outs but also optical digital. Just be sure that it comes with its LRC remote control unit.

One of my concerns with the Teac is the cost of and availability of purchasing new tape and the unreliability of using old or second hand tape.

Although not as easy to purchase today, the ADAT uses standard S-Video VHS tape (not the standard VHS tape) and a 120 tape will give 40mins and a 180 tape about an hour of recording time (I think that the USA uses a different time numbering system for VHS tape), which is far greater than a standard 10" analogue tape running at 15ips.

You should be able to purchase S video tapes at possibly some of the better music outlets (eg Sweetwater, Full Compass, BWS, Guitar Centre, etc) as well as possibly Amazon and the purchase cost should be considerably less.

AND did I mention that you can sync up to 16 units (from memory) together with frame accurate syncing and there was also a BRC (big remote control) unit that was available to allow all functions to operate from a single uint --- would be a good purchase if available somewhere.

ACTUALLY JUST LOOKED AT EBay and saw the following ---

Alesis Adat HD24 Hard disc Audio Recorder w/ BRC Master Remote Control | eBay

I own three of these HD24 units and they cost me about $3K each plus the BRC (about $1.5K), so $US599 for both is amazing for a 24-track recorder ---- no tape to purchase, and cheap hard disks (one for every project if you like) that are housed on caddies that simply pull out.

While the 8-track ADAT units I have been mentioning are going from about $US90

I know which way I would be going and it is not the Teac way ---- the HD24 or if money tight the ADAT way!!!!!!!!!

David

 

[miroslav]

... can I suggest that you have a look at the Alesis 8-track ADAT recorder.

I know ADATs had their heyday, and lots of folks used them...but TBH, if I was going to suggest to anyone a digital recording technology to use today instead of analog multi-track tape...the ADAT recording is about the last thing I would ever recommend. OK, maybe second to last...the DAT would be the last thing...but they are similar technology that has truly become obsolete and abandoned.

Now...if you have working ADAT or DAT machines, and you are happy with them...then by all means keep using them, but I don't think it's the way for anyone to go these days if they are putting a rig together from scratch. Not to mention...if you want analog tape...then that is something different from ADAT digital, regardless that they both use magnetic tape.

Also...there was never a lot of love for ADAT recording back in the day...though the digital transmission format is still quite prevalent these days, and many digital interfaces offer it. I use it with with some of my converters to extend my digital track counts when needed.

Here's some views from the past:
ADAT recorders - Gearslutz

 

[wkrbee]

If you have the "Master" cable, it means you can use the ATR as a Master- but without a slave it would be mostly useless. If you are trying to get a computer to chase the ATR, you don't need the ES-50. except to generate TC You would stripe Ch8 with code and send it to your computer. This is called a "Code only master". Putting the ATR in play will have the computer chase it The Es-50/51 can be used as a transport remote, because the ES 50 will send transport commands through the Master cable to the ATR
ADATs- are yesterday's news along with the Tascam DA series machines. Not many techs. still work on them and not much in the way of parts are still available.I t sounds like the OP wants Analog tape-not digital.FWTW I have new ATR 60-8 heads up on Ebay now.