Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 31

Thread: Tascam 424 MKII Bouncing Tracks Question!

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    16
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    0

    Tascam 424 MKII Bouncing Tracks Question!

    Sign in to disable this ad
    Okay, so... I have a tascam 424 MKII tape cassette recorder and I want to record a full band project type deal on it, just for fun nothing serious. I would like to know if anybody on this fine board could teach me how to bounce tracks on to another source so that i can have say like 8 - 12 seperate tracks to record like : Vocal, Backing Vocals, Guitar, Guitar # 2, Bass, Keyboards, Snare, Kick, and two Overheads, as well as some extra tracks for like ambient recordings. I'm not familiar with SMPTE, but I'm aware that it exists, but have no clue on how I would start. I also eventually want to bounce my stereo mix into my Macbook Pro's Logic Pro, so I can burn on to cd's. I have very little idea on what the best way to do that is, also. All help is very GREATLY appreciated. I'm 17 years old, so give me a break if this sounds stupid guys. Thanks.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Posts
    8,553
    Thanks
    223
    Thanked 218 Times in 198 Posts
    Rep Power
    3753124
    Have you read/studied the manual?

    That is step one.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Posts
    8,553
    Thanks
    223
    Thanked 218 Times in 198 Posts
    Rep Power
    3753124

    Seriously...

    Not trying to put you out or anything but we could spend literally hours typing little messages when the manual walks you through recording, overdubbing and bouncing step-by-step.

    The "Step-By-Step Operations Guide" starts on page 15 of the manual. Flip over to page 33 and there is a tutorial on bouncing tracks.

    Here is a webpage with lots of great info on the 424 that also has a link to a .pdf of the manual in case you don't have one.

    I have a 424 mkII. I can help you as you get into it and start dealing with specific challenges, but give yourself the foundation I can't give you and work through those tutorials. It will help you to be an independent master of the 424.

    Also, what do you mean when you say "bounce"? Are meaning "transfer"? Bouncing is when, let's say, you recorded on tracks 1 ~ 3 of the 424, and then you playback those tracks while you record that mix onto track 4 leaving tracks 1 ~ 3 now open to record more tracks. Is that what you are meaning or are you talking about filling up the 4 tracks on the 424 and then dumping them over to something else and tracking more on the 424, dumping those and so on while keeping everything in sync? That's where SMPTE comes in, but we're getting ahead of ourselves...

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    16
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Yeah I've already read the manual I got for it, but I don't want to bounce tracks onto other tracks on the 4 Track, I want to keep the quality of all 4 tracks and have them individually dedicated so that mixing them can be a little bit easier in the end. I want to bounce them off so I can have another 4 tracks to record just like you mentioned with SMPTE. Is that like.... crazy? Is there no hope???

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Posts
    8,553
    Thanks
    223
    Thanked 218 Times in 198 Posts
    Rep Power
    3753124
    Okay...Now I've got where you are coming from.

    I was confused because of how you used the term "bouncing". "Bouncing", as I said earlier, is mixing previously recorded tracks on your analog recorder onto 1 or 2 empty tracks of your analog recorder making those previously recorded tracks now available for more/new tracks (and yes that means you wipe out your original tracks forevermore). You don't "bounce" from one recorder to another recorder. You are either "mixing down", "transfering", "dumping", "dubbing" tracks from one unit to another. So that is what you are wanting to do but to build your project as you go using the 424 for your initial tracking and then building those up on another multitrack unit or your DAW and keeping everything syncronized. Am I following you?

    Here is the deal with syncronizing...

    The basic idea is that you have two recording units, and then a separate hardware unit, a syncronizer, a box between the two recording units that keeps the two recorder units locked together in time. The syncronizer "listens" to machine code from one recorder unit that is the "master" unit, and then sends code to the "slave" unit. The slave unit has to functionally be able to follow the code coming from the syncronizer...what kind of a slave doesn't follow, right? In this case your 424 has to be the master unit, because the motors in the 424 aren't designed to speed up or slow down based on what a syncronizer tells it to do. Am I correct that you want to transfer tracks from the 424 to your computer? Your computer then will be the slave unit, because the 424 has to be the master. The syncronizer box you will need to purchase...something like a Tascam MTS-30 or a JL Cooper PPS2. There are others, but those two are pretty common, inexpensive and work well. You can find them used on eBay for instance.

    Questions for you:

    1. What are you using for an audio interface with your computer?
    2. What recording software are you using?


    I ask because your audio interface will need to have MIDI I/O as well as audio, and if it doesn't have MIDI I/O you will need to have some other MIDI interface for your computer. The next big requirement is that your software will need to be able to clock to incoming MIDI timecode (MTC). Stay with me...

    In order for your computer to be the slave unit in the sync relationship, your software has to be able to "listen" to the timecode that comes off your 424 and follow it to stay locked. Most recording software can "slave" to incoming MTC. Now maybe you're wondering "how did we go from SMPTE to MTC???" Not a lot of recording software will slave to incoming SMPTE...only the more professional $$$ software packages, but many/most can slave to incoming MTC. The syncronizer converts the SMPTE coming from the 424 into MTC and sends that on to the computer over a MIDI cable.

    How does the SMPTE come off the 424 you ask? The syncronizer box has a SMPTE code output on it. You record or "stripe" track 4 on the 424 with SMPTE code from the beginning of the tape to the end...track 4 gets used only for SMPTE code so you only have 3 tracks out of your 4 for audio. Make sure that when you stripe track 4 with SMPTE code that you turn off the dbx noise reduction on track 4. That is why the dbx switch on the back of the unit has three settings:

    • On (noise reduction is truned on on all tracks)
    • Off (yeah...off)
    • Sync (noise reduction is only turned on on tracks 1 ~ 3)


    So you stripe your track on the 424, you connect the output of track 4 to your syncronizer "master input", connect the MIDI out of the syncronizer to a MIDI input on your computer, set the software to slave to incoming MTC and then when you press PLAY on the 424 the software should jump into PLAY also.

    YMMV with how well the computer tracks to the 424...you are asking a digital device to follow a mechanical device and depending on how much horsepower your computer has and the buss architecture of your chipset and disk hardware and disk I/O architecture you may get pops and clicks, especially if there is anything funny with the capstan motor control on the 424. Many people use their gear this way tho'...it is not a new/strange/unique concept. Just giving you a heads up that you may need to contend with that.

    Now, why are you wanting to do it this way? Why not just track straight to the computer? I know why I would do it this way...I love analog, but I'm wanting to know why you want to go through all this at your stage of experience and understanding...not that you can't do it, but this is isn't just jumping in with both feet...this is a cannonball.

    What questions do you have at this stage?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    16
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    First off, Sweetbeats you are the man. Thank you for all your help. I appreciate it very very much. Thanks.

    Your questions:
    I have a little USB FAST TRACK thing that I'm planning on replacing. I'm looking to buy a more expensive usb or firewire interface with 8 xlr in's and some decent preamps + whatever I need to do this stuff. Basically I want to be able to record on tape, but have an interface decent enough to do stuff when I don't feel like having a bunch of fun messing with tape. I guess I'm just looking into getting something that will have both a use for me as a interface and as a tape deck that will send straight to my macbook pro.

    The software I have is this : Garageband (Apple), and Logic Studio Pro 8 (Apple), No protools... :/ I'm not very fond of the whole protools thing, I'm not much of an "editor", I'm really religious about just recording things right, and then just doing over all compression or what have you later.

    I follow you on everything I need to do here. It all makes sense I just have not read the manual to Logic Pro 8 and don't know how to clock to the SMPTE or MTC or whatever... YET. Why do I want to do this on tape? Because I get so sick of recording on my computer, like it takes forever for me to find a sound that i like enough to record, and it just like STALLs the creative process for me as a songwriter who wants to demo songs and record nice little things, like I'll sit and sit and try to get a decent sound, and that will take forever and then i'll just be like "to hell with this, I don't want to record it if it won't sound good", and that's why I don't touch logic anymore. I guess you're right it is a cannonball, but I mean... I want to get into a school where I can learn about analog recording and it's a really big hobby of mine, and incredibly interesting for me. It's something I would want to look into as a career if possible, wether I be in a studio, or at venues doing sound there. I love it. It's a really big passion of mine, and I can just sit listening to some recordings from certain bands and like... just listen to all the little things in the songs that sound so incredible, and just appreciate it, and I can't sit very long listening to most other artists that don't have that great sound... my favorite band is Death Cab For Cutie. I look up to their Guitarist / Producer Chris Walla very much as well as John Vanderslice at "Tiny Telephone" in San Francisco.

    Thanks again for your help, if you have any recommendations on what interface I could get with the midi / 8 xlr inputs it would be great.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    16
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Oh by the way... I don't know TOO MUCH about how computers work with recording and everything... but I have a new Macbook Pro it's got 4 GB of Ram and it runs dual 2.4 GHZ, and what not... I don't know about the BUS or whatever... but I mean ... I think it's pretty decent.... I don't know... :/ Is that okay for this kind of stuff do you think what would determine wether or not this will work without getting those pops. (That would ruin this experiment, or definitely not make it as fun as it's getting)

    [I'm delving into recording on tape and have even been looking at old tascam reel to reel's.... I'm at the point where I'm getting REALLY REALLY excited about everything... I like the Tascam 80-8... ]

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Posts
    8,553
    Thanks
    223
    Thanked 218 Times in 198 Posts
    Rep Power
    3753124
    I have a little USB FAST TRACK thing that I'm planning on replacing.
    Yah. Good idea IMHO.

    I just have not read the manual to Logic Pro 8 and don't know how to clock to the SMPTE or MTC or whatever... YET.
    Good news (possibly). I believe Logic will sync to SMPTE, so if that is the case (if you have the manual in a .pdf you can just do a search for "SMPTE" in Acrobat), you won't need an external sync box, just run the output of track 4 of the 424 to an input on your interface and tell Logic to slave to SMPTE and to look for the incoming timecode on to whatever input you have the track 4 output connected. This is all assuming that Logic can generate the timecode to stripe onto track 4 of the 424. You'll have to look into it with Logic.

    Why do I want to do this on tape? Because I get so sick of recording on my computer, like it takes forever for me to find a sound that i like enough to record, and it just like STALLs the creative process for me as a songwriter who wants to demo songs and record nice little things, like I'll sit and sit and try to get a decent sound, and that will take forever and then i'll just be like "to hell with this, I don't want to record it if it won't sound good", and that's why I don't touch logic anymore.
    Right on...I get you.

    Listen, the other option is to try to get what you want on 4 tracks, or get a 488 or a 238 and a mixer and try and get your sound on that and then mixdown to the computer. Something to think about. I've really grappled with that y'know?

    I run a Cubase DAW with a Yamaha 01X/i88x/Presonus Digimax FS setup...outboard processors..tons of I/O options blah blah blah. Its too much...not that I haven't utilized it pretty well and I have it running really stable at up to 20 tracks at 24-bit 96kHz, but there's so much opportunity to dicker. That's one reason I got back into analog; for the sound and simplicity...the better sounds that can come from the simplicity. I have a Tascam 58 and an ES-50 syncronizer...I originally thought of doing what you are talking about...syncing the deck and DAW, tracking to the deck and dumping to the DAW and then tracking more to the deck and building the project in the DAW with the project sync'ed...then my friend cjacek told me in a post one day basically "don't mean to burst your goal but why don't you just do [the upcoming project] all on the deck? Skip the whole sync thing altogether? Try to get it all on 8 tracks." I was having problems getting the syncronizer to control the deck properly (see, to complicate things I'm operating the 58 as the slave in the sync relationship, which it can do unlike the 424...that way my Digimax's Jet PLL clock is still the clock master), so that was his "huh!" advice to keep it simple. So food for thought, but I relate to and appreciate what you are trying to do and why, and respect that you are not jumping to getting a "better" analog deck...I have seriously heard some incredible stuff done on a 424 as well as a 246 on this forum, by people with a clear pursuit of "recording things right". Humbling. My latest idea is, for bigger projects, to use the syncronizer to sync my 48 (got it as a pair with the 58) with the 58...that will give me 14 tracks of audio (8 tracks x2 minus one track on each deck for SMPTE code). We'll see. BTW here's a thread and another thread that will give you some insight into the hills and valleys in my latest station on my journey...you'll get a better sense of my anal retentiveness and obsessive compulsivity too!

    if you have any recommendations on what interface I could get with the midi / 8 xlr inputs it would be great.
    I don't know what your budget is, but I'm really comfortable recommending the Presonus FP10, formerly known as the Firepod. I think they are phasing it out but as you see by the link it is on sale at MF for $400 with a bunch of plugins. It doesn't have the Jet PLL clock like my Digimax, or the direct outs or inserts x8, but I believe the rest of the input section is the same and I have been really pleased with my Digimax. The pre's are discreet...Did some spectral analysis of the XMAX pre's compared to the pre's on my Yamaha i88x (which are very well reputed) and the Presonus pre's were much quieter (keep in mind this is hair-splitting) on the analyzer, and they sound good too. The hi-Z inputs are now my favorite for my electric bass...so there you go. It does have inserts on channels 1 and 2 as well so you have some options for patching outboard gear later on if you get into that, or for using it as a direct box pre 424 or even as an outboard mic preamp pre 424 (using the inserts as a direct out...need a special cable to do this), and it has S/PDIF and MIDI I/O as well. Neat little box for really a great price. If you've got more or less in your budget I can recommend other options, but you're not going to find more features necessarily than the FP10 until you get over $600 or so.

    So keep the questions coming and I want to encourage you to follow your interests...you seem to have a good head on your shoulders at a relatively young age...one of the best things you can do is as you are doing, ask questions, and try stuff! Experiment...get to know your gear by pushing it and finding those limitations and thn seek that next level. Another though: see if you can shadow operations at a local studio...see if you can even volunteer at a local studio...be a gopher, wind cables, dust, do windows...who cares what...just get around some professionals and learn by watching and demonstrating that genuine interest. What you can gain in direct observation will give you a leg-up if you pursue a technical school program. You may even be able to get some part-time work that way. Anyway, check it out and let your passion drive you. If you are truly that interested at this stage you probably don't care about getting paid especially if you are indirectly getting edumacated while shadowing. Be a volunteer help and what you give will come back someday somehow...references, a job, contacts and networking...good stuff.

    BTW, your Macbook should be able to handle things just fine...It depends on how you configure things, but hardware-wise it is up to the task.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    16
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Okay, so I will look into Logic syncing with SMPTE, I know for sure it has it cause I googled it, but I will figure out how that works once I figure out what I need to buy... an interface. I don't know about the firepod, I know that the preamps are cool especially for the price, but I wanted something with a little more digital control over the computer recording aspects... I was actually looking into this right here:

    http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...-IO?sku=702521

    Would that be sufficient...? I would get it used probably off Ebay... or maybe just wait it out until I can save up for it (which would take well into 2009). What draws me to that is that it has all the controls for the recording project on there, and you don't have to mess with a mouse and keyboard as much, which i really like. Plus, I hear that the M-audio preamp's are actually pretty good. Correct me if I'm wrong.

    Also, how is Cubase? I hear that it's pretty cool. I actually really do like Logic a lot, especially compared to Pro Tools, but I've always had a desire to use Cubase but never got the chance to, it's not even that expensive I don't think. What's your say on it?

    And as for getting inside of studio's... that's like a pretty cool idea I just don't know what I would say... like "Hey... let me stand around and be a bother and dust off all your equipment!" ??? Hahahaha.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Posts
    8,553
    Thanks
    223
    Thanked 218 Times in 198 Posts
    Rep Power
    3753124
    I wanted something with a little more digital control over the computer recording aspects
    Thank hard about this...

    how many inputs and outputs do you really need for the computer interface?

    What are you really wanting to do? In one breath you say you get frustrated with the DAW and love creating with the 424, and then in the next breath you want a full control surface...Don't assume that getting a control surface for you DAW will make it like working with the 424...it doesn't. The control surface makes DAW production operations more efficient, but it doesn't bring any more soul to the process...in the low-end market of control surfaces there is still lots of paging around and multiple button functions, etc. That is my opinion based on my experiences working with a control surface over two full-length CD projects. I'm just one opinion, but I feel strongly about that opinon.

    What's wrong with this? They can be had around $400 used on eBay, sometimes less. No ADAT I/O like the ProjectMix, but then again how many inputs/outputs do you really need? Only 4 mic pre's but how many do you need? Fader travel is only 60mm but...its less than half the cost of the ProjectMix, more portable. I've heard mixed reviews of the M-Audio pre's...

    Also, how is Cubase? I hear that it's pretty cool. I actually really do like Logic a lot, especially compared to Pro Tools, but I've always had a desire to use Cubase but never got the chance to, it's not even that expensive I don't think. What's your say on it?
    Whay try another DAW? You've already got Logic, which is an excellent package and well integrated with MacOS...Why on Earth would you want to drop the money for yet another DAW?

    I'm really happy with Cubase save for some upgrade issues that left some users in the lurch, but I chose Cubase because of the tight integration with my Yamaha setup, so there were specific drivers in my decision to go with Cubase.

    Also, how is Cubase? I hear that it's pretty cool. I actually really do like Logic a lot, especially compared to Pro Tools, but I've always had a desire to use Cubase but never got the chance to, it's not even that expensive I don't think. What's your say on it?
    Hey, I just read "passion" in your post, and I was trying to encourage you. If you seriously want to look into a career in the audio production industry then the time is now here to get your hands dirty. Nothing stopping you. You can say whatever you want when you call 'em, but if I were you I'd just be saying "I've been involved on a personal level with analog and digital multitracking for x years and I'm considering pursuing a career in it. I reall enjoy it. Would it be possible to shadow your operation and/or provide any volunteer assistance? I'm willing to help in any way that I could." It'd be up to you whether or not you would be a bother, and your responsibility to show them that you aren't one.

    Just some thoughts based on what I read into right or wrong in your previous post. Take it or leave it for what its worth in your eyes.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. whats the difference between a Tascam 424 MkII and a 414 MkII?
    By dennnis in forum Analog Recording & Mixing - Tape & Gear
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 05-08-2008, 11:18
  2. Bouncing drum tracks on Tascam 388 question?
    By SchoolHouseRock in forum Analog Recording & Mixing - Tape & Gear
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-10-2008, 08:31
  3. question on volumes when bouncing tracks
    By clazymike in forum Cakewalk / Sonar Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 12-07-2001, 17:01
  4. Tascam 414 Question on Bouncing Tracks...
    By PunkRawk in forum Newbies
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-31-2001, 17:46
  5. Newbie question: TASCAM 488 (not MKII) > PC ?
    By Ryasi19 in forum Digital Recording & Computers
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 05-29-2000, 10:25

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •