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Thread: Studer 928 Story...

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweetbeats View Post
    ...like the EQ just totally does what you need it or want it to do, without causing more trouble.
    Yeah man....that was the problem I had with my Tascam 3500. Overall, a really good console, had great routing options, the whole in-line with both long and mini faders was a super feature, loved the LED metering...BUT...I just could never get anything decent out of the channel EQs....and I'm pretty sure most of the earlier and later Tascam/Teac mixer models were no better in the EQ department.

    You're hearing that now...same as with my Trident...the EQs are "musical" (whatever that means)...bottom line, they are not fighting you, they actually help you dial in the tones.
    You're gonna really enjoy that Studer!

  2. #12
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    @miroslav

    Looking at all those pics now...yeah, for sure, that's a serious piece of gear.
    That's the kind of console I would have preferred, one that has a bit more modern features, and I did look for quite some time (you remember all the conversations we had)...but after looking for about 4 years, I needed to make move, and when the Trident came up, it was a shit-or-get-off moment (same thing you had with this Studer). My Trident is more classic old-school analog, an I love it for that vibe, but it doesn't have as many modern features as your Studer...but it's a good 10 years older too. Not complaining...I've gotten very comfortable with the Trident...but that Studer is sweet, especially for what you paid for it.
    Yeah I do remember our correspondence about the Trident...looking back through your Trident thread I still think you did really well with that console. Looking at the pics of the channel PBCs reminds me of my Soundtracs console...really liked how that console sounded. Your Trident is a good console...I absolutely love how it looks, and the mods that were done prior to your acquisition, particularly to the ground scheme and the Acopian power supplies...those are serious mods with serious results, not to mention the recapping you did and the select opamp replacements. I’m not looking at any mods or recapping on mine, at least not for quite some time, if at all as far as the opamps go. Studer used good quality caps, and the console isn’t yet 20 years old. When that time comes (I can’t remember if I mentioned this), the seller purchased all the caps to recap the entire console and purchased nice 105C “audio grade” caps. And Studer got it right with the ground scheme...top notch. Your Trident was built in the era where “star-grounding” was the marketing hype. It was a bad idea...all wrong as far as I’m concerned and supported by help I got on my Soundtracs from the late Neil Muncy who was published in the AES Journal regarding grounding in professional audio systems. It looks like whoever modified your grounding scheme employed best practices. I kind of drool over your Acopian linear supplies...the supplies that came with the Studer are “switchers”...switching power supplies vs. linear. I need to research more on that. They are the original Studer designed supplies which my friend says is good, and I know switching power supplies are extremely common, but I think there has been some controversy in their application to larger complex devices...I guess the main concern is the switching noise that can be induced into the audio path if they are too close to the audio circuitry, but the Studer supplies are external. I’ll just have to be mindful of their placement once setup. Anyway, FWIW there are still facets of your Trident about which I’m envious. I really appreciate the value of the logic switching in my Studer, but it increases the challenge in troubleshooting...the input modules’ schematics are spread across five 11 x 17 pages each! Your Trident is relatively more straight-ahead.

    I know it will be a bit of time before you're at that fully hooked-up state with the tape deck and peripherals...but don't let it lay too long, don't lose the motivation. This is your shit-or-get-off moment to go all-in. Not sure how old your son is...but this could be his legacy...to dive into recording along your side. That gear has a long life and it will only be more valuable with time, and you know how to keep it in top shape.
    Thanks! Yeah all those ideations are in sight. It will take some time before I can set things up and finish the Ampex, because the space is not ready...still have electrical, insulation, sheetrock, and finish carpentry to do...and that takes money, and we don’t have it, especially after nabbing the Studer...and before any of that I have to sell a bunch of stuff to pay for the Studer and help us keep up, and finding time to do that is even hard...case in point it’s taken me three days to compose this post! So...momentum will be up and down on this. It’s just really not possible for me to relegate a chunk of time to anything the way things are right now and for the foreseeable future. But I definitely feel at peace with the Studer.

    ....that was the problem I had with my Tascam 3500. Overall, a really good console, had great routing options, the whole in-line with both long and mini faders was a super feature, loved the LED metering...BUT...I just could never get anything decent out of the channel EQs....and I'm pretty sure most of the earlier and later Tascam/Teac mixer models were no better in the EQ department.
    Right. Yeah. I hate to say it, but that’s kind of the same feeling I have. I really, really appreciate the routing and online monitoring features of the Tascam consoles I’ve used, which really boils down to the M-300 and M-500 series...388 too...and my prototype mixer is thrown in there since it led to the M-500 series...even the little M-106 incorporates some inline monitoring. But I avoided using the EQ, even on the Tascam M-__ prototype mixer in spite of the robust EQ feature set (four swept bands, the two mid-bands fully parametric with sweepable Q...two HPFs and one LPF). The EQ drove me to finding other ways to solve certain problems, which, in a way, was good...I *should* be working on mic placement (for instance) instead of just running to the EQ section, right? But when I did need EQ I found it a struggle to solve issues with it. Like the EQ would change the sound but not entirely improve the sound if that makes sense...like there was always some trade-off. By contrast my Soundtracs console did something to the sound that I liked. The Studer is like that...like, let’s say there a mid-range sonic cluster-mess...boost the low-mid band, swweeeep...swweeeeep, sweep-sweep-sweep, it’s around 800Hz, dial it back somewhere between -3 to -5dB, cool...can hear everything better, but then I A/B it with the EQ on/off control it’s not just that the problem frequency is abated, the whole thing just sounds sweeter. I think at least some of my hangups with the Tascam EQs has to do with the fact that with the models and series ranges mentioned above (excluding the M-106) ALL the EQ bands are peaking with the exception of the M-300 series hi band...that’s the only one that’s shelving. If swept peaking mid-bands have a decent enough range I really like shelving lo and hi bands, particularly if there is a HPF onboard. You can do a lot with a HPF and lo shelving EQ depending on the knee point of the HPF...sweepable HPF is super handy but that’s above my pay grade. Anyway...again, not trying to be disparaging about the Tascam gear. My general misgivings about the EQ may be nothing less than my own shortcomings.

    You're hearing that now...same as with my Trident...the EQs are "musical" (whatever that means)...bottom line, they are not fighting you, they actually help you dial in the tones.
    You're gonna really enjoy that Studer!
    Yep, yep and yep!

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFR View Post
    Shit! Way above my pay grade. Even the hookups scare me. Lol
    But it looks like a serious piece of gear.
    Congrats, and I'm sure you'll keep us posted.
    Yeah it looks a little intimidating at first, but it’s mostly straight-ahead XLR, and the label plates are really clear about what’s what...the six 39-pin DIN 41622 connectors are a bit mysterious looking too, but all the key stuff you’d generally need access to for master section I/O are all on XLR jacks. The DSUB-9 connectors above each column of channel jacks are for remote triggering of external devices...like you can set machines to go into REC or PLAY when you move a particular channel fader from infinity and such...and external mute control, external VCA fader control...broadcast stuff...stuff I don’t think I’ll ever use.
    Last edited by sweetbeats; 01-22-2019 at 19:45.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zacharia View Post
    Congratulations on getting an incredible desk.

    I have a 269 that I use with my TRS-8. For an 8 track tape machine I think these smaller Studer Boards are the best way to go, particularly for someone in my shoes. I record myself, and it's rare that I am ever tracking anything other than mono (even drums). What they lack in bussing and routing options they more than make up for in sound.

    Your 928 is a wayyyy more flexible beast than my little 269, but I think my main point is that these are serious pieces of kit. Plus, they are very user-friendly to work on. I look forward to hearing how you think this board sounds.

    Congrats again. I've lurked here for many years. I really wanted to chime in on this thread so I finally signed up and did!
    Hey glad you did!

    That sounds like a pretty sweet setup. You should consider posting a pic or two...I bet the TSR-8 and Studer console look pretty cool together, and I bet you get good sounds out it.

  5. #15
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    So I did confirm none of the slots configured for the stereo modules (slots 13 through 32) have any direct out access. The modules themselves have direct out capability, and the motherboard is likely configured to pass the signal, but what I believe is missing is cabling from the motherboard to the backplane, and then the connector on the backplane; saw a pic of the back of another 928 and unlike mine each group of four channels’ jacks have a DSUB-25 connector at the top of the jack plate. This is what mine doesn’t have. And it’s not that it’s “missing” per se, mine just wasn’t ordered with that option. A broadcast facility wouldn’t really have need for tons of direct outs. I still haven’t figured out how I feel about this because I still haven’t really mapped out how all my gear will be hooked up and furthermore run through scenarios in my mind. But...I think if I spent much time dwelling on it I’d be over thinking it...right? All 12 mono modules have balanced direct out jacks on XLRs, and furthermore there are the four group outs, and another independent assignable stereo pair since there are two full-featured independent stereo master busses...so as-is the console can feed 18 tracks at a time, which is more than my Ampex can handle, and more than I can reasonably imagine ever having to track to the DAW simultaneously. So I really shouldn’t worry about this.

    On the flip-side I have a total of 64 line inputs, across 16 stereo/mono/dual-mono input modules, so up to 32 line inputs can be monitored on those 16 modules at a time depending on if they are stereo, mono or dual mono sources...and all of this is controlled from the control surface...there are 64 XLR input jacks, so there’s easily enough there to have at minimum 16 mono tape returns or 16 mono DAW returns for summing depending on whether it’s a tape or DAW project, and if some tracks are stereo pairs, well then those can be hanged in stereo on one module leaving stereo modules available for whatever...but that can all be hooked up all the time, and press buttons to flip/mix/match whatever I’m summing. And there’s still four full-featured stereo returns and eight stereo/mono external inputs in the master section. This is all in addition to the 12 mono modules which have mic and line inputs with separate trims and amps...like totally separate.

    A lot of times the output of the mic amp feeds the line amp on a mixer input strip, so if you’re using the line input that jack just skips over the mic amp. The Studer has entirely distinct and specialized amps for the mic amp and line amp...the mic amp is transformer coupled and then it goes to a tuned 5534-based amp. The line input is a high level electronically balanced amp based around (IIRC) a 33078...the mic trim is a stacked pot, the collar of which sets the range in eight 10dB steps for the mic amp, and then the knob sweeps over a 10dB range. This makes for a quieter mic amp at the extremes, and also accommodates a wider range of mic signals. The line input trim is actually a +/-15dB center-detented pot...the center “0” position assumes a +6dBu nominal signal, but the trim pot will accommodate -10dBv all the way up to super hot inputs.

    Wow I went off of my own topic. Anyway...I’m not sure how or even if I’ll utilize an external patchbay, but if I do my preliminary thought is to use it for my outputs, so I can patch the direct, group and main outputs to multitrack tape and DAW inputs, normalled for the most common scenarios, and then also have aux outputs and outboard effect I/Os as well as stereo returns in the patchbay for managing my send effects...lots to think about.............but it’s fun. And bottom line I think the Studer has adequate I/O as-is for my needs.
    Last edited by sweetbeats; 01-22-2019 at 19:47.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweetbeats View Post
    And bottom line I think the Studer has adequate I/O as-is for my needs.
    For sure, if you can cover your needs with the on-board bay...that's less muss-n-fuss for you.

    Not trying to brag...but I got a shit load of outboard gear (probably twice as much as I really need)...plus I wanted the capability to do at least 24 channels A/D/A so I could dump from my Otari...plus I have another 8 channels, that let's me bring out up to 32 channels from the DAW to mix through the Trident.
    Having all that easily accessible and reconfigurable, required a lot of patchbay points.

    Look...you can easily expand with the bays down the road if needed...which is how it went for me and where I ended up with the 7 bays x 96 I/O points each.
    At this point, I've almost maxed out both patchbay points and rack space...thank god for that...so I would have to do some serious additions to get more. I have one pair of unused I/O points left.

    Oh...I just say a bunch of Studer boards on eBay, I think a pair of 928s and a couple of others...plus Studer decks....but they are all being sold out of South Korea.
    I can only imagine it's from some studio/broadcast facility that was introduced the USA at some point. It just looks like it's gear from about 20-30 years back, but in pretty good shape...so it has to be some commercial studio.
    Anyway...the pair of 928 consoles are about $5-6k each...and that's because they are in SK. I mean, not too many people will pay to have that stuff shipped so the pricing on the gear is lower than what it would go for if it was here in the USA or over in Europe.
    Bottom line...you got a great deal on yours!

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrano View Post
    That about sums it up.

    You make me real jealous

    Finding a desk like this at a reasonable price is remarkable. Even here in Europe, where you still can find some from broadcast, these are snatched up by traders immediately. In fact, I've given up hope of ever finding one. Unfortunately all the rest is inferior (in build quality and sound) or even more rare and expensive.

    I'm sure you'll enjoy that desk endlessly.

    You lucky dog, you!
    Beware Cyrano with any desk from a "broadcast" source. They are often configured to operate at much lower internal levels than recording desks (which are usually -2dBu) to give greater headroom. Noise for broadcast is not such an issue as it is for recording (even for tape!) but headroom is.

    Dave.

  8. #18
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    I’ve owned quite a few desks from broadcast sources. They seem to have Some mythical properties for Some believers. Usually, there’s not much difference from the non-broadcast verslons.

    And a Studer is very configurable...
    MB Pro, FF400, AKG C451-C1/CK8, NT1, B5, MD21, Korg RC168, DEQ830, ADA8000...

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrano View Post
    I’ve owned quite a few desks from broadcast sources. They seem to have Some mythical properties for Some believers. Usually, there’s not much difference from the non-broadcast verslons.

    And a Studer is very configurable...
    Oh! I am sure Mr C and Sweatbeats has obviously got a good'en. I mentioned the OP level point just for general interest. Someone "could" buy what they though was a bargain but find it a bit hissy? Especially for those fussy digital folk!

    Oooo! Just noticed you are in the Royal Borough! I spent many a weekend there as a kid. Mum's sister lived in Alexander rd and her husband had a butcher's shop there. Bin round the tower, down the walk and played in many a pub garden whilst M&D "refreshed" themselves
    Dave.

  10. #20
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    I was under the impression broadcast console designs put extra effort with regards to noise and especially crosstalk.
    Balanced summing,robust ground schemes and some +8dBu nominal outputs.Maybe just the good ones.

    G

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