Sticky Shed Help Thread

[cjacek]

I'll do that. Unfortunately it's going to take me a while to get the film developed, this being the analog only forum and all...
it's true, the only camera i have is a 35mm Minolta. I can take a photo with my phone but i doubt the quality would be good enough for a diagnosis.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say from looking myself that the tape path probobly is worn or too sharp. I have seen some odd-looking grooves down there while cleaning. If this is the case am I in big trouble? If a replacement part is availible from tascam, is it easy to replace?

I don't think a photo is now neccessary. Seems you found the reason for the shedding. If you can see and feel (with a fingernail) flat grooves into an otherwise round and smooth tape lifter, for example, then not only are you stripping oxide from tape (especially at the edges) but also your heads are pretty worn too and most likely will need a relap or replacement. Personally, if you bought your machine cheap, I'd sell this one for parts and look for another, maybe a diff model. Otherwise the trouble and cost associated with the repair may not be worth it. Based strictly on your description, you may have a very well worn TSR-8. It wouldn't be a bad idea to take a digital photo of the heads, with your cell ph, but make sure it's close enough with plenty of light.

 

[Beck]

do you think other people may be experienceing this? should i start a new thread about it?

Good idea for getting the most people to see your question.

BASF/EMTEC/RMGI doesn't have sticky shed, but all tapes shed to some degree. It's not a binder prolem in your case.

Also, When using the +9 tapes like SM900 you're going to have tape tension issues, which can cause greater shed and head wear. I would not use SM900 on a TSR-8.

Worn parts in the tape path are hard on tape and increased tension will make it worse. If your tape head is worn down so you can feel the tracks they will clog with oxide. The heads should feel smooth.

 

[t_ebrontosaurus]

Dear beck,

since i dont have this unusual superpower of finding sticky shed tapes i was wondering if you could verify these tapes. i can look through reems of numbers and these posts to find bad listed tape, but i never know if i can trust whats no on the list.

Heres a lot of ten ampex 631 1/4" tape.
http://cgi.ebay.com/10-Ampex-631-1-...8QQihZ017QQcategoryZ15000QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

i would really appreciate if you could take a glance at that and see if its alright. It seems to be by this link, http://www.recordist.com/ampex/docs/misc/sticky-shed.html

but just to double check.

Thank you much,

noah

 

[Beck]

The AMPEX/Quantegy 600 series does not have sticky-shed no matter how old. 631 is a general-purpose tape... not the best, but not bad either. 632 is better for music if you can find it.

 

[t_ebrontosaurus]

The AMPEX/Quantegy 600 series does not have sticky-shed no matter how old. 631 is a general-purpose tape... not the best, but not bad either. 632 is better for music if you can find it.

thank you much for your help, oh super- sticky shed informer -man

i really appreciate the help.

I recently saw 5 packages of 1/4" ampex 456 grandmaster at a daddys selling for $50 a pop. they looked so tempting. thank god i had found this post or i would have considered it. I just got a teac a-3440 in near mint condition for 200. i replaced the main belt and i just have to buy some tape for it to get her going.

thats my story,
and thank you again for all the help.
its been priceless

Noah

 

[Beck]

I bought a reel of 1/4" quantegy 456 from a daddys and i would just like to double check if it was made after '97.

first.. i think quantegy began in '95 after ampex,
and there is what i beleive to be a date code on the box from the factory.
2002324

can anyone ease my mind on this one?

thanks,
noah

Your tape was made in 2002. Only Ampex branded tape will have sticky-shed. Quantegy used the AMPEX brand on the boxes until 1998. This is where it gets tricky. 1995 AMPEX is pre-Quantegy, but is not sticky. 1996 - 1997 is still branded AMPEX but is owned by Quantegy.

For tapes without a date sticker you can tell by looking on the back of the box. AMPEX branded Quantegy will say Quantegy Inc. Opelika, Alabama.

1995 and earlier AMPEX will say AMPEX Redwood City California.

Anyway, all Quantegy branded is good...except for slitting and quality issues over the years, but that's another thread. 2002 is about as good as it gets.

Anything 1995 and later is the new formulation and will not have sticky-shed (well actually late 1994, but we say 1995 to be safe).

 

[t_ebrontosaurus]

Your tape was made in 2002. Only Ampex branded tape will have sticky-shed. Quantegy used the AMPEX brand on the boxes until 1998. This is where it gets tricky. 1995 AMPEX is pre-Quantegy, but is not sticky. 1996 - 1997 is still branded AMPEX but is owned by Quantegy.

For tapes without a date sticker you can tell by looking on the back of the box. AMPEX branded Quantegy will say Quantegy Inc. Opelika, Alabama.

1995 and earlier AMPEX will say AMPEX Redwood City California.

Anyway, all Quantegy branded is good...except for slitting and quality issues over the years, but that's another thread. 2002 is about as good as it gets.

Anything 1995 and later is the new formulation and will not have sticky-shed (well actually late 1994, but we say 1995 to be safe).

! I apologize for the misplaced thread, got excited and just posted! Thanks for the relocation of it.

and now im going to try this out!
Im sure ill be over asking and reading up about tape calibration.

thank you and thank you again,

noah

 

[Beck]

! I apologize for the misplaced thread, got excited and just posted! Thanks for the relocation of it.

Don't worry about it. It's bound to happen now and then and we've done remarkably well keeping that thread on track.

It’s really my fault anyway, as I should post a reminder now and then. I’m sure many people aren’t going to read the first post in the thread at this point.

 

[Splicit]

Ampex 632

Just thought I'd pass this along....We found a storage warehouse in Texas that had many many cases of Ampex 632. We've bought up quite a bit of it. This stuff is perfect. We used it at home with excellent results. Priced right @ $9.95 per pancake. 1/4" x 2500'.

Teresa
Splicit Reel Audio Products
www.splicit.com

 

[Beck]

Bump..................

 

[reverber]

I have some Ampex 407, Redwood City address that someone gave me, but no date on the sticker .
It (the hold down sticker) is just a multicolored "407". I am assuming this is sticky-shed tape, but am hoping there is a possibility it is not.
One side of the tape is a dark, flat black color, and the other is an oxide red (if that makes any difference) - I can't remember which side is called the backer anymore.
Thanks for your help.

Cody
Lawrence KS

 

[Beck]

Not all AMPEX has sticky-shed, even with the Redwood City address. Late 1994 and later (practically speaking 1995 and later to be safe) are free of sticky-shed. One way to tell is the box style. Both of the two below are likely to have or eventually develop sticky-shed.

The newer box style is similar to the one on the right, but the logo is along the bottom like the current Quantegy

Those with the logo along the bottom 3rd of the box like Quantegy should be fine. The newer box style was adopted by AMPEX in 1994 and remained about the same, except for color and of course company name until Quantegy went belly up.

 

[Han]

I wonder, is the sticky shed a result of a physic process or a chemic process, because that matters a lot.

I think it's a physic process because chemics are permanent, while physics are returnable. For more about baking tape go to Eddie Ciletti's homepage.

About my experience with baking tape: I've built myself an oven with an electrical heating element, a couple of fans and three thermostatic switches from central heating units. A thermometer is installed so I can watch the temp every now and then.

Maximum temp for baking tape is 135 deg F which is 55 deg C and you can leave the tape in the oven al long as you like, 24 hrs, a week, it won't go bad. But 6 to 8 hrs must be enough for a 2" tape.

If it's still sticky, put it back in the oven and bake it again but longer.
Plastic reels don't melt at 135F. If you put a tape in the oven and you open it after ten minutes, you will notice there are big drops of water upon the tape, so if you make an oven, make a couple of small holes in it so it can ventilate. The water damp has to go out of it. Kitchen ovens won't work at all, don't even try this.

I've had many Ampex 456 tapes that got sticky, but also some Basf 911 though that's rare.
In order to find out the possibilities, I've done unimportant recordings on baked tape and that went perfect, it sounded okay and although I didn't use it again I think one can record with this tape again.

Main importance is that you store it under good conditions, cool and dry, in an airtight plastic bag together with some silica gel if possible.

 

[pentatonik]

excuse my french

hi there folks,

well as an introduction I shall thank again you all contributors to a better, sticky-shed-free world.
You save a lot of worry and misunderstanding to all of us analog wanabees!

I'm in France, and need to purchase 1/2" tape (brand-new owner of a TSR-8, yepee! farewell computer and headache!!).

I wouldn't dare to ask Mr. Beck to monitor european eBay-market of tapes as well as he does for US market.
I was wondering if you could just tell me:

• sticky shed free brands or models, which I can bid on without worry,
• key informations I shall ask to tape sellers, in order to be able to tell (grossly) by myself if its "biddable", thanks to all the informations in this forum

e.g. 140171060697
merci a lot!

 

[jpmorris]

hi there folks,
I'm in France, and need to purchase 1/2" tape (brand-new owner of a TSR-8, yepee! farewell computer and headache!!).

Ideally it would probably be best to get new RMGI tape. There should be at least one dealer in France, but Thomann do sell it (they seem to list it as RMG though). You'll want SM911. alternatively, if you are dead-set on buying through ebay, look for Quantegy 456, BASF SM911 or EMTEC SM911 - but I would recommend you try and stick to new old stock - preferably shrinkwrapped.

 

[analog aaron]

What's the deal with this?? I slightly remember a few weeks ago someone on here posting the idea (or fact?) that some of the RMGI tape has sticky. Anybody know anything about this???? Thanks Guys.

 

[pentatonik]

You'll want SM911.

Thank you Jean-Pierre Morris!
That's what I figured out meanwhile, actually.

I also noticed Thomann is selling SM911, but I'm currently considering an order at Splicit in the US (with my BIG euros I'm sooo rich on the US market!! ).
so far I'm happy again

but

I slightly remember a few weeks ago someone on here posting the idea (or fact?) that some of the RMGI tape has sticky. Anybody know anything about this????

now I'm sad again
oh la la what will I do

Anyway I guess new SM911 is still preferable to eBay craps (excuse my french again), regarding the sticky-shed issue.

 

[jpmorris]

SM911 doesn't have the sticky-shed problem where it turns into goo and sticks to the transport. However it does seem to be more susceptible to shedding if the deck is worn. This may be a teething problem, I do not know.

 

[Beck]

hi there folks,

well as an introduction I shall thank again you all contributors to a better, sticky-shed-free world.
You save a lot of worry and misunderstanding to all of us analog wanabees!

I'm in France, and need to purchase 1/2" tape (brand-new owner of a TSR-8, yepee! farewell computer and headache!!).

I wouldn't dare to ask Mr. Beck to monitor european eBay-market of tapes as well as he does for US market.
I was wondering if you could just tell me:

• sticky shed free brands or models, which I can bid on without worry,
• key informations I shall ask to tape sellers, in order to be able to tell (grossly) by myself if its "biddable", thanks to all the informations in this forum

e.g. 140171060697
merci a lot!

There is plenty of tape on eBay without sticky-shed.

- Buy only new tape (Even 20-year-old AMPEX can be new-old-stock and it’s perfectly good). ½” AMPEX/Quantegy 406/456 will be in a sealed plastic bag inside the box. If it is not sealed, it is not new.
- AMPEX/Quantegy 406 and 456 made from 1995 to 2004 is recommended. Earlier than 1995 is vulnerable to sticky-shed; later than 2004 is more likely to have quality control issues. Ask the seller what the date is on the label.
- All 911 and 468 are good as long as it’s new. Look for 911 by BASF, EMTEC and RMGI. Look for 468 by AGFA, BASF, EMTEC and RMGI.
- All years of 3M/Scotch 966/986 are good.

There are still reports coming in of shedding RMGI, but it’s not sticky-shed. However, it can still cause problems. The up-side is that buying new RMGI from a dealer gives you a return option if there is something wrong with it, as long as international shipping cost doesn’t make that impractical.

 

[cjacek]

There are still reports coming in of shedding RMGI, but it’s not sticky-shed.

Is there a clearly defined reason for this shedding, something which is known for sure? I ask, cause theories abound, from worn out tape paths due to ampex / quantegy, to insufficient dry time. Not everyone agrees. Is there a consensus?