Sticky Shed Help Thread

While on the dreaded SSS subject, I've just been in touch with a guy who has 200 10.5" 1/4" tapes mainly 406, 456 etc (!) with important live recordings on them from the 80's. I'm on them myself somewhere as a muso in 1982.
I know the deal with the Ampex stuff but he says he also has some on Memorex, TDK and Maxell (no code numbers as yet).
I've had experience of a whitish powder coming out of a TDK GX tape but nothing like the problems of 406 etc. I thought I read someone saying Maxell had no SSS problems.
Anyway any info appreciated. Obviously dont want to bake tapes which dont need it but OTOH dont want to play SSS tapes which have valuable material, even for a short time.
I expect to receive samples early next month so can identify by number etc more accurately then.
Any help appreciated.

cheers Tim.
 
Hey Tim, I've got a couple of boxs of TDK GX and have the same problem with the white powder shed. It doesn't seem to effect the tape itself but if i'm playing a fill 10 1/2 inch reel through then the heads are going to be covered in the residue. It does seem to ease off after a few plays through though.
 
Yes it was the GX tape that deposited the white stuff for me too. A lot easier to remove than classic SSS deposits thankfully.

T
 
We all know about the backcoated Ampex stuff but all the Maxell tapes, whether backcoated or not, do NOT go bad. I'm not sure about Memorex or TDK. Though I think those "Made in Japan" should all be fine, at least as far as sticky shed is concerned.
 
Thanks Daniel.
Whatever the Japanese tapes, with all those 456 and 406's he's in for a big bake up. Hope he likes being in the kitchen...

Cheers Tim
 
You're welcome. :)

Yeah, from the lot, the Ampex stuff is definitely highly suspect and bake worthy.

I recall reading about those longevity tests, at around the time when Ampex changed binders, mid or early 70's :confused:, that the then "new", supposedly improved, formulas would last a 100 years! :rolleyes:

As far as I know the Japanese tapes never went sticky shed. Reportedly, they all used whale oil binders and never made the switch.
 
I would bake all the AMPEX 406/407 and 456/457 from the 80's. Unfortunately baking doesn't help with the TDK GX. It is more of a cleaning proposition. There has been some success using 70% isopropyl alcohol with the powdery condition, but it’s a tedious job. You run each tape at play speed while holding an alcohol soaked piece of chamois (or lint-free cloth) against the oxide side of the tape, turning and changing the chamois as needed. You may want to be a bit alcohol-soaked yourself to get through it. ;)

The tapes that will respond most favorably to baking are as follows:

AGFA: PEM 469 and 369

AMPEX: 031, 356, 357, 406, 407, 456, 457 made from 1970’s to mid 1994.

SCOTCH/3M: 206, 207, 226, 227, 806, 807, 808, 809

There are several other conditions that can afflict old tape, such as mold and loss of lubricant.
 
Don't think anyone mentioned Scotch/3M 996
I read, it is known to exibit SSS
I'm totally knew to RtR, but that is what I read. Not from my experience though.
 
Of course there is nothing wrong with purchasing some of these tapes for the metal reels if the price is right... just don't count on the tape itself.
 
Remember... it doesn't matter if a tape is used or new and sealed. Sticky shed has nothing to do with use, and everything to do with time and climate.

Tapes that are new-old-stock from the sticky years will undergo binder breakdown in storage. Even a tape that you remove the seal on will be sticky right out of the box. There are a lot of unused but older AMPEX 456, AGFA 469, and 3M 226 on eBay that are tempting because they look great.

It’s a shame, but they are no better than a used tape that has been lying around in a musty basement. :(
 
I'm thinking of investing in old sticky tape stock when the ACME Sticky Magnetics division goes public. Business is booming. :eek:

It bothers me a sitin' hera doin' nothin' :cool:
 

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Question

Is it common for brand new SM900 tape to shed material?

I had a recording session yesterday and was using SM900 tape on my TSR-8.
I found that i needed to clean the heads between every song we recorded. After about 5 minutes of recording time i would start to lose volume on tracks 7 and 8. Every time i cleaned it, i would see orange buildup on one side of the heads. After each cleaning, i had full volume on all tracks for another five minutes. is that normal for SM900? i know its a high output tape, but i wasn't expecting so much shed!

I have previously used "one-pass" ampex from tape-tape and for obvious reasons have dedicated myself to only using brand new tape. I'm going to use Sm911 next time.
 
I recently had some SM911 shed all over my deck. Same kind of deal as you were seeing, I could not calibrate two channels and the heads were gunked.

I am hoping it was just a rare bad batch, but was told it was because of my machine (JH16-16). The reason was that the machine had wear on the lifter from running Quantegy (which was underslit) for years. When you run the RMG product, it is the full 2" (or whatever size) and the wear on the lifter was corrupting the edges of the 911, causing it to fail horribly.

RMG replaced the reel with some SM900 (at my request) and I have yet to try it.

Just some more info into the mix.

mm
 
do you think other people may be experienceing this? should i start a new thread about it?

also, which peice is the "lifter"? Is that the movable roller on the far left side? I'm using a TSR-8.

I've had problems with sticky tape before and I'm hoping that it hasn't caused irrepairable (sp?) to my machine. This tape was brand new.
 
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I'd look at tape path wear, especially the tape lifters and guides. If they are significantly grooved / worn then you're going to be stripping away oxide.

Guys, how about this.... Take a nice closeup and clear photo of your headstack and post it here. Lets take a look, shall we ? ;)
 
Ding Dong said:
do you think other people may be experienceing this? should i start a new thread about it?

No, we don't need bad publicity or needless rumors started (about RMGI) when it very well may be the recorder (tape path) wear which is causing the shedding (see post above). Until we know for sure, hold off from starting an "RMGI shed" thread.

also, which peice is the "lifter"? Is that the movable roller on the far left side? I'm using a TSR-8.

It's those two long tubular thingies which go up / down when you press play and stop. They're located to the immediate left and right of the erase head (the white one), on your TSR-8. I'd also check the other stationary guides. Any grooves and thus sharp edges on the lifters and guides and you loose oxide from any tape.
 
cjacek said:
Guys, how about this.... Take a nice closeup and clear photo of your headstack and post it here. Lets take a look, shall we ? ;)

I'll do that. Unfortunately it's going to take me a while to get the film developed, this being the analog only forum and all... ;)
it's true, the only camera i have is a 35mm Minolta. I can take a photo with my phone but i doubt the quality would be good enough for a diagnosis.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say from looking myself that the tape path probobly is worn or too sharp. I have seen some odd-looking grooves down there while cleaning. If this is the case am I in big trouble? If a replacement part is availible from tascam, is it easy to replace? :confused: :(

also, Im supposed to mix-down these recordings this week. Is repeated playback going to ruin those tracks? im getting that sick nervous feeling in the gut...
 
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