Soundcraft Ghost + TSR-8 (and +4dbu Outboard Gear)

Ignatius-

New member
Hey Guys... So I'm not exactly sure where this should go...

After the rather traumatic experience of purchasing a completely useless M-520 to go with my TSR-8, I settled on a Soundcraft Ghost 24 (not LE). I'm super happy with this mixer (although I really miss the M-312b I traded for the M-520).

I've tried searching about this on multiple forums, but I can't seem to find anything - most people interface these with a DAW setup, so that doesn't really help. The manual says that the board has the ability to change the tape inputs and group (buss) outputs from +4dbu (stock) to -10dbv. Has anyone successfully done this? Do you think this would cause problems if, say, 8 of the tape ins and the group outputs were -10dbv and the rest of the board was set to +4dbu?

Say I want to run an AUX send to a reverb unit or something, since the AUX outputs (and all of the other outputs) are +4dbu, will this boost the -10dbv level of the tape return? Or will it just keep the same level? Also, if I make this change, how will that effect the mixdown? I am going to a Tascam 32 right now... Will I just have to really watch the levels (and crank the gain if I'm monitoring off this machine)?

I'm still trying to wrap my head around incorporating new +4dbu equipment. I used to run a completely -10dbv setup (it was awesome), and I never had to think about levels getting all messed up between gear. I posted about this in The Rack, but my situation has changed completely... would it be better to get just get a Fostex 5030 and keep the board at +4dbu? Any help would be greatly appreciated!
 
If there are separate switches/jumpers for the group outs and tape returns to switch over to -10db, I can't see how that would affect the aux and effect sends levels or those +4 db levels affecting the tape returns and group sends as those are all independent signal paths. You should be fine and not need any outboard level matching units.

Cheers! :)
 
It's a long time since I've used a Ghost but they're lovely boards!

From memory, although it's possible to change the default level of the Tape Returns on each channel by unsoldering a resistor, this is not normally necessary because the Tape Return level control has a sufficient range to cope with either -10 or +4. It's something like +/- 15dB from memory.

In other areas, the change of default level is by simply adding/removing a link--easy to do if you're careful. Just take the bottom cover off the mixer and follow the instructions. I've just had a look and the owners manual with all these details is available HERE.
 
All the board I/O can be switched from -10dB to +4dB or just the buss out/tape returns? Do the aux send/returns stay at +4?

Either way, I'm with Ghost, I don't see how or why it would matter. As the TSR-8 is -10, I think you'd be better off running the necessary board ins/outs that its going to connect to at -10 instead of adding another piece of gear in between. Why don't you just pencil out your basic setup, and determine if any connections are permanent (e.g. the buss outs to the TSR-8) and set those at the appropriate level. It sounds like most of your gear will be at -10 and a handful of sexy bits at +4 so I don't see why you couldn't make semi permanent connections and just label well and pay attention when re-patching.
 
+4db is line level -10 is mic level.... Don't get caught in the logic... Thats the spec

Nope. Completely wrong. Both -10dBV and +4dBu are forms of Line level. The -10dB version is typically used on consumer gear with unbalanced inputs and outputs; the +4dBu level is standard on professional gear with balanced ins and outs.

Mic level is more like -50 to -60 dB.

Edited to add: I see you've amended your post while I was typing a reply based on your mis-information. Even though you've corrected the glaring clanger, your post is still a bit confusing and not overly useful to the OP who clearly understands the difference and is asking about mixing and matching the levels.
 
I started typing then the phone rang. I'm sorry I have a semblance of life outside the forum.

Strange mistake to make in the first place though...
 
I started typing then the phone rang. I'm sorry I have a semblance of life outside the forum.

Strange mistake to make in the first place though...

Indeed, there are 4 other prosumer, consumer threads going on right now. Why is there no stickied Line level posts....Seem to be a fundamental flaw in forum. I like the personal attack though, classy. Guess with 14mil rep you can do what you please.
 
Indeed, there are 4 other prosumer, consumer threads going on right now. Why is there no stickied Line level posts....Seem to be a fundamental flaw in forum. I like the personal attack though, classy. Guess with 14mil rep you can do what you please.

The rep points are meaningless. You are not being abused, just corrected.
 
Indeed, there are 4 other prosumer, consumer threads going on right now. Why is there no stickied Line level posts....Seem to be a fundamental flaw in forum. I like the personal attack though, classy. Guess with 14mil rep you can do what you please.

Whatever you may think, nothing I said was intended as a personal attack. I just thought it important to correct the serious error in your first reply (and, once I hit the Reply button, I had no way to see that you changed what you said).

As you say, the HR Forums don't have a sticky about relative levels--perhaps that's something for the mods to consider in the future. I'd suggest a whole tour of everything involving dB though..mic level, the two line levels, instrument level, and perhaps the difference between dBVU and dBFS.

However, with the lack of a current FAQ, I thought it important to correct your initial statement that -10dbV was mic level since you post would show up on any search about the topic.

As for rep points, there are plenty with more than me--and, as Farview says, they're pretty meaningless since you're just as likely to get them for a good joke as for good technical info.

Again, nothing I said was meant to be an attack--just a correction.
 
I started replying to this thread in 2003, ten years before it was written, 'cuz though I can see the future I type really slow.

Please no more stickies! Line level is audio 101 stuff (Ok maybe a sticky in the newbie forum)

The OP's question was specific to a certain piece of gear... so anyway... I would change the input/output levels on the Ghost to -10. The the AUX levels will be fine as is.

One more note about stickies... a lot of stuff is missing from homerecording since the forum changed hands. You can find a lot of the lost info by looking at the archived versions of the forum in the wayback machine.

Internet Archive Wayback Machine
 
Yeah a stickie if warranted, but up in the newbie section. Id suggest it list some of the good primers available on recording techniques, terms, conversions etc.
 
Thanks for all the info guys! As many of you noted, I am very much aware of the differences of -10 vs. +4 - I wanted to know if anyone had any experience with a Ghost operating at -10dBv (or what happens when you convert part of the board/not the whole thing, etc.).

Also, I have a pretty irritating sinus infection which is screwing up my ears, so I got a little self conscious with regards to what my ears were actually hearing the last time I used the board. It seemed like when I pumped the gain on the tape returns, I got more noise than what I'm used to hearing (especially coming from a Ghost)... but that is probably not actually how it sounded (damn sinuses).

Also, I had to keep the channel levels (going to the TSR) super low without moving the PGM faders (which I could do if necessary). This didn't allow a lot of wiggle room when mixing, so I thought I would explore the option (and the manual just says you can do it... I'm probably going to make the change - sounds like it shouldn't be that big a deal. Thanks again!
 
Just as an aside, and I don't know this board, but I've seen schematics for other gear, including a DAT recorder I have that takes balanced +4dBu I/O. The balanced I/O goes to amps that then sends/recv it to a -10dBv rca to the actual deck. (It's an old Sony boat anchor with two boxes...) I don't use the machine, but based on the schematic, I could just bypass the XLR's and run straight to the RCA's and eliminate a stage. I've seen a Tascam machine that did the same thing.
 
I corrected myself 5 minutes before him.. You want official apology? i HAVE no LIFE BUT MAking people sound the best they can. I have No regrets....

Okay, I tried polite.

I hit "Reply with quote" as soon as I saw your post. As soon as you do that YOU NO LONGER SEE ANY EDITS OR CHANGES BEING MADE BY THE ORIGINAL POSTER. I had a slight distraction while posting so a 30 second post took me five minutes, by which time you'd made a stupid and badly phrased correction.

No person with even a basic knowledge of audio would have made your initial error--it wasn't just a simple typo on a number or something. It showed a total lack of understanding of what you were trying to talk about.

So stop playing the know it all ass and, in future, only reply with advice on things you actually understand.
 
I corrected myself 5 minutes before him.. You want official apology? i HAVE no LIFE BUT MAking people sound the best they can. I have No regrets....

I didn't ask for an apology. I was simply pointing out that you were not being attacked. Are you esl? That would explain the comprehension problems.
 
I once made a totally idiotic post about impedance matching, (I had read the previous post, but basically transposed the concept) that didn't make sense in the context, and i went back and deleted it. It happens, but I wouldn't feel flamed if someone called me on it crossposting...

Getting back on topic, comments on the above? For that SOny deck I think it would be helpful to eliminate a stage and go unbalanced Thoughts?.
 
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