Pre Amp advice for my analog set up?

F

fred s.

New member
I'm not sure if this is the correct forum for this, but since most of my posts are analog related and I will be using it on my analog mixer/deck...

I was wondering what some good choices are for a new or used preamp.

I don't want to go over $200.00, which I'm sure limits my choices a lot.

My typical vocal and acoustic guitar recording setup is:

Studio projects B1> FMR RNC compressor> Mackie 1642vlz pro Mixer (but for EQ I'm using a Tascam PE-40)>to a Fostex M80.

I'm happy with the sound I'm getting already...but would like to see how a different preamp would work in there.

Some prospective choices are:

-Rane ms1b

-Electro Harmonix 12AY7

-FMR Realy Nice Preamp (if I can find a good deal used)...definitely like that it's 2 channel!

I tried a "modded" ART Tube MP (upgraded tube and op amp) and didn't care for the results on vocals.

Open to suggestions...
 
Last edited:
The Rane would be a good one at that budget if it's a clean sound you want. It's a minimalist pre with phantom power, a polarity reverse and plenty of clean gain.

The Electro-Harmonix 12AY7 (presume that's what you mean) is also a good one for the dollar, though I found the input gain pretty hot even when rolled almost all the way down; it was a touchy pot, and a bit unexpected in a pre with only 50db of gain (I seem to recall patching an A-Designs ATTY on the output when I tried the EH on vocals and guitar cabs), but it's a decent sounding pre for the buck and you can play with different brands of tubes to make small changes to the sonic character, if that's your thing. The phantom power, high pass filter and polarity reverse are nice touches for a tube pre of this price as well.

The FMR RNP is not a bad pre either, and will have a bit more sonic coloration than the EH and definitely more than the Rane. Of course you get two channels with this guy and you also get inserts, so that's a boon if you want to insert a compressor or whathaveyou rather than patch inline.

Any of these are pres I'd prefer to use over a Mackie VLZ pre and any of them will have more than enough clean gain for a mic with a healthy output level like the B1. The EH would come up a little shy on gain if you were, say, recording a delicate acoustic guitar with a ribbon mic, but doesn't seem to pertain to your situation.
 
briank said:
The Rane would be a good one at that budget if it's a clean sound you want. It's a minimalist pre with phantom power, a polarity reverse and plenty of clean gain.

The Electro-Harmonix 12AY7 (presume that's what you mean) is also a good one for the dollar, though I found the input gain pretty hot even when rolled almost all the way down; it was a touchy pot, and a bit unexpected in a pre with only 50db of gain (I seem to recall patching an A-Designs ATTY on the output when I tried the EH on vocals and guitar cabs), but it's a decent sounding pre for the buck and you can play with different brands of tubes to make small changes to the sonic character, if that's your thing. The phantom power, high pass filter and polarity reverse are nice touches for a tube pre of this price as well.

The FMR RNP is not a bad pre either, and will have a bit more sonic coloration than the EH and definitely more than the Rane. Of course you get two channels with this guy and you also get inserts, so that's a boon if you want to insert a compressor or whathaveyou rather than patch inline.

Any of these are pres I'd prefer to use over a Mackie VLZ pre and any of them will have more than enough clean gain for a mic with a healthy output level like the B1. The EH would come up a little shy on gain if you were, say, recording a delicate acoustic guitar with a ribbon mic, but doesn't seem to pertain to your situation.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the informative post! :)

Do you think the EH 12AY7 would work well with a sure sm57 mic as well (guitar cab, etc)?
 
briank said:
The FMR RNP is not a bad pre either, and will have a bit more sonic coloration than the EH and definitely more than the Rane. Of course you get two channels with this guy and you also get inserts, so that's a boon if you want to insert a compressor or whathaveyou rather than patch inline.

Any of these are pres I'd prefer to use over a Mackie VLZ pre and any of them will have more than enough clean gain for a mic with a healthy output level like the B1. The EH would come up a little shy on gain if you were, say, recording a delicate acoustic guitar with a ribbon mic, but doesn't seem to pertain to your situation.
Click to expand...

Do you have extensive experience with the RNP in a setting where you can actually make this kind of evaluation and comparison? I would like to but haven't. However, given my discussions with Mark McQ regarding the RNP and his goals for it and the hi-fi nature of most of his gear, I'd be surprised if the RNP were as you describe.

Also, I've used the preamps in my old Mackie CR-1604 for like 16 years now and they are really amazingly clean and true when used at conservative levels (peaks no more than +10 dBu unbalanced) and less than maximum gain.

Personally, I prefer to spend my time worrying about controlling the sound at the mike, using a good mike and putting it in the right place and just setting the right gain on the preamp. I find the notion of tinkering with different preamps to be mostly a game inspired by people with expensive gear to sell.

Cheers,

Otto
 
fred s. said:
Thanks for the informative post! :)

Do you think the EH 12AY7 would work well with a sure sm57 mic as well (guitar cab, etc)?
Click to expand...


Shure it would (no pun intended...well ok, it was intended ;) )

Thinking about your Mackie pres, you may find the Rane a little too much of a muchness as they're both on the clean side, sonically.


ofajen said:
Do you have extensive experience with the RNP in a setting where you can actually make this kind of evaluation and comparison? I would like to but haven't. However, given my discussions with Mark McQ regarding the RNP and his goals for it and the hi-fi nature of most of his gear
Click to expand...

I wouldn't call my experience with the RNP "extensive" by any means; I don't own one or use one on a routine basis, but I've heard it enough to form the opinion that the Rane sounds cleaner...but don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with a little midrange character. We have a few RNCs; they're pretty transparent and pretty incredibly priced for what they do; in my more limited experience with the RNP, its character was not as transparent...granted one's a compressor and the other a pre, but you get what I'm sayin' lol. I record commercially and have wrapped my ears around a decent enough pile of preamps that I feel ok forming and relaying opinions on their sonic characteristics and despite my cynicism I tend to disagree that it's a game as you say, particularly with higher end pres; in that setting I do like having a variety of good pres around for a little bit of choice in sonic colors on the palette, but I get what you're saying, and I could certainly do a project with nothing but some decent console channels without complaining.

I DO think that in the case of home self recording, for example, that Mackie pres are fine and dandy as long as you watch your gain staging, as you point out, and I definitely agree that getting the source material right is the most critical element for sure...when you get to outboard preamps, you're talking icing on the icing on the cake. As for whether the OP feels that the pres he listed are a justifiable improvement on--or addition to--his Mackies in his situation, it's for him to try and find out :cool:
 
fred s. said:
I'm not sure if this is the correct forum for this, but since most of my posts are analog related and I will be using it on my analog mixer/deck...

I was wondering what some good choices are for a new or used preamp.

I don't want to go over $200.00, which I'm sure limits my choices a lot.

My typical vocal and acoustic guitar recording setup is:

Studio projects B1> FMR RNC compressor> Mackie 1642vlz pro Mixer (but for EQ I'm using a Tascam PE-40)>to a Fostex M80.

I'm happy with the sound I'm getting already...but would like to see how a different preamp would work in there.

Some prospective choices are:

-Rane ms1b

-Electro Harmonix 12AY7

-FMR Realy Nice Preamp (if I can find a good deal used)...definitely like that it's 2 channel!

I tried a "modded" ART Tube MP (upgraded tube and op amp) and didn't care for the results on vocals.

Open to suggestions...
Click to expand...


1. A preamp should come directly after a microphone. The RNC (or any signal processor for that matter) is not capable of dealing with a raw mic signal.

2. If you can spring for it, I highly recommend the RNP. (Full disclosure: I not only use one but am an authorized dealer.)
 
RRuskin said:
1. A preamp should come directly after a microphone. The RNC (or any signal processor for that matter) is not capable of dealing with a raw mic signal.

2. If you can spring for it, I highly recommend the RNP. (Full disclosure: I not only use one but am an authorized dealer.)
Click to expand...

-I'm using the RNC in my mixer insert only.

It's between the EH 12AY7 and FMR RNP, hopefully I'll find a good deal on a used one.
 
fred s. said:
-I'm using the RNC in my mixer insert only.
Click to expand...

Your description didn't make that clear.

You may already know this but just to make certain: When you use an outboard preamp, don't go through the board preamp. Use the line in or better yet, the inset return instead.

Another thing, unless modded with faster ic's, the PE-40 is a nice eq but is transient-wise, much slower than your current board's eq section. Something to keep in mind if you experience loss of detail with the PE-40 in the chain.
 
I know a budget is a budget, but a $200 pre is not going to really be a huge difference over the Mackie, IMO.

I would suggest saving up and buying a better used preamp. Say you save up and drop $650 or so on a used Sytek. You can always sell it for about what you paid. That beats spending $200 on something that offers marginal results and does not hold resale value.

IMO, good preamps (defined as having a healthy amount of clean gain) are more important with tape than with digital. Digital is more forgiving if you need to record at low levels to avoid distorting the preamp. Obviously, if you record tape too low you'll get more noise.
 
RRuskin said:
Your description didn't make that clear.

You may already know this but just to make certain: When you use an outboard preamp, don't go through the board preamp. Use the line in or better yet, the inset return instead.

Another thing, unless modded with faster ic's, the PE-40 is a nice eq but is transient-wise, much slower than your current board's eq section. Something to keep in mind if you experience loss of detail with the PE-40 in the chain.
Click to expand...

I was actually wondering about that...since I don't have much experience with outboard preamps.

So when using an outboard preamp, what's the best way to go about hooking everything up to my mixer?

I'm assuming: Mic>Preamp, 1/4" cable from the Pre> Mixer channel's line in, correct?

I'd be using the same channel's insert for running a compressor, and reverb on aux.

Is that the way to do it?

-No complaints about the pe-40, works like a champ.

leddy said:
I know a budget is a budget, but a $200 pre is not going to really be a huge difference over the Mackie, IMO.

I would suggest saving up and buying a better used preamp. Say you save up and drop $650 or so on a used Sytek. You can always sell it for about what you paid. That beats spending $200 on something that offers marginal results and does not hold resale value.

IMO, good preamps (defined as having a healthy amount of clean gain) are more important with tape than with digital. Digital is more forgiving if you need to record at low levels to avoid distorting the preamp. Obviously, if you record tape too low you'll get more noise.
Click to expand...

I wish but $650 for a preamp in my set up would be a bit outrageous.
 
Hey Fred, I thought of your thread here when a thread got bumped on another forum...I hope I'm not ruffling any feathers linking to another forum (if I am please let me know), but this guy put up a quick'n'rough preamp shootout that included the Rane and RNP, blind at first then he divulges which is which several posts down; I thought you may find it useful. Disclaimer: I'm "dirtyragamuffin" over there.
 
briank said:
Hey Fred, I thought of your thread here when a thread got bumped on another forum...I hope I'm not ruffling any feathers linking to another forum (if I am please let me know), but this guy put up a quick'n'rough preamp shootout that included the Rane and RNP, blind at first then he divulges which is which several posts down; I thought you may find it useful. Disclaimer: I'm "dirtyragamuffin" over there.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I actually ended up with a DMP3 over the rane...couldnt find a good deal on the FMR...

Im pretty impressed with the DMP3 for the $...2 channels, and I got it for $130 brand new.
 
fred s. said:
Thanks, I actually ended up with a DMP3 over the rane...couldnt find a good deal on the FMR...

Im pretty impressed with the DMP3 for the $...2 channels, and I got it for $130 brand new.
Click to expand...

Yup. The DMP-3 is solid and can't be beat at that price. My only small complaint with mine is that the VU meter lamps aren't working. I'm not sure exactly why. I pulled the case open to see how hard it might be to replace them, but they looked OK. In fact, when I put it back together, one lamp started working again, but now it's out again. If I care enough, I'll open it up again and see if I can figure why the power isn't getting through.

Cheers,

Otto
 
The ART MPA Gold is a fine preamp, but it doesn't have much in the way of character. You can also replace the tubes down the road, should you like.

It's also fun to use it as a guitar/bass DI and overdrive the tube gain stage :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top