Patching with the 388

j.harv

j.harv

@#$%
I know I should probably be putting this question in the Rack forum, but I like it here.
Anyway...Im putting together a rack of effects to use with my 388.I have a patch bay that IM going to connect all the line inputs from the 388 into.
Now when it comes to the XLR mic inputs,should I get an xlr patch bay or one of those snakes that have the box on one end with all the inputs that you put on the floor.???
Im just doing this to save me from reaching behind the recorder all the time.

Tanks
jason.
 
j.harv said:
I know I should probably be putting this question in the Rack forum, but I like it here.
Anyway...Im putting together a rack of effects to use with my 388.I have a patch bay that IM going to connect all the line inputs from the 388 into.
Now when it comes to the XLR mic inputs,should I get an xlr patch bay or one of those snakes that have the box on one end with all the inputs that you put on the floor.???
Im just doing this to save me from reaching behind the recorder all the time.

Tanks
jason.
Click to expand...

What sort of patch bay is it, 1/4" TRS front and back? You can always get XLR-to-TRS patch snakes, in that case...EWI makes good ones for a good price, or there's always Hosa if you don't mind molded ends and super basic XLR connectors.
 
briank said:
What sort of patch bay is it, 1/4" TRS front and back? You can always get XLR-to-TRS patch snakes, in that case...EWI makes good ones for a good price, or there's always Hosa if you don't mind molded ends and super basic XLR connectors.
Click to expand...


The one I have now is a balanced 1/4" patchbay.Im just gonna use it for my line inputs and maybe snd/rcv and to patch in effects units

Im just wondering about xlr for plugging microphones into.I usually use a number of these inputs when micing drums.
I was thinking about getting a rack space xlr bay
 
briank said:
You can always get XLR-to-TRS patch snakes, in that case..
Click to expand...

yeah, I sometimes think about a patchbay for the 388 - (show us your cordflow when you're done! ) i sometimes would worry about adding all the extra cabling, connections etc. but its prob'ly no big deal at all regarding extra noise etc. (though, i tend to be cheap on cables, so that's why i'd worry i guess....)

- I'd suggest as briank does, just use the same patchbay (if you've got the channels to spare on your model...) and use some XLR to TRS cables - i've got the plugs and cable to make some for myself - that'll be my route - cut in half some TRS cables and stick on XLRs.

could be novel having an XLR patchbay as well, but I suppose rather more expensive also...
 
If your mic'ed sources are all in one area, I'd just run an XLR snake from the back of the 388 to that spot...the snake can terminate in a stage box or a fan...
 
Thanks for the replys.
While Im here I have another question.
If I want to use a separate preamp for a microphone,would I go from mic to pre into xlr mic input on 388 or would I go into the snd/rcv for the channel I'm using.?
Would this be the same for using something like a guitar POD.
Guuitar into POD into 388 line-in,or into snd/rcv for the channle Im working with?
Thanks again.

J
 
j.harv, typically the mic pre is going to have a line-level output so you wouldn't want to use the XLR MIC in or the RCV jack...you'd want to use the LINE input.

You could use the RCV jack but in ding so you won't be able to select your input source with the source select switch on the control surface of the 388. Fortunately the 388 mixer isn't one of those mixers where slecting "LINE" simply switches in a -30dB pad or something like that in front of the mic amp..."LINE" on the 388 completely bypasses the mic amp...this isn't rareor anything but sometimes that's the way a mixer is engineered.

What mic pre is it?

Hopefully it has a -10dBv output on it. If it doesn't this isn't a deal-breaker but it would be ideal.
 
Thanks again Sweetbeats.

The pre amp is just a cheap ART V3.
I just heard somewhere that if you plug a preamp into a line input you won't get the full benefits of the out-board pre,that you'll still be hearing the pre from the mixer.Like it won't be bypassed or something.
 
That's absurd...the best way to maintain the signature of the outboard unit is to avoid unnecessary circuitry on along the signal chain. That would be the line input, and in fact the 388 doesn't even have a variable gain stage at the mixer LINE inputs (i.e. there's no TRIM knob) so it has potential to be a more clean path than most line inputs. The downside is that it depends on the outboard unit having a variable output gain stage, which the V3 has.

I have an ART Tube MP OPL and I actually like it quite well. Cheap, and handy, and sounds pretty good...definitely good for the money. Even has my favorite opamp (the 5532) on the output side.
 
Just another question.....I plugged my bass guitar directly into the line input and the trim knob didn't do anything but I was still getting a signal through my headphones and a reading on the vu's.
In the manual it says you would need a direct box for guitars and such for this connection,but Im getting a pretty loud signal from the bass.
Are DI's and outboard pre's always needed for the line ins?:confused:
 
As I mentioned above, the TRIM knob is only active on the XLR MIC input. Whatever you plug into the LINE inputs needs to have an output level control to manage the TRIM level at the 388 mixer LINE input, though if the outboard unit has -10dBv outputs you really shouldn't need any trim control as the nominal levels are already matched. The channel fader then becomes all you need to drive the level to tape.

Does your bass have active electronics (is there a battery onboard)? If so, then it is already producing line level signal. The note in the 388 manual is assuming passive instruments for which you would need a DI or outboard instrument pre.
 
No.Its a passive bass.Maybe the pick up has a strong output?

Thanks again for the help,but......

I have another question going back to the patch bay.Im trying to get everything out front so I dont have to reach behind.I have all the line in's going to the bay but now Im thinking of routing all the snd/rcv jacks of each channel to the patch bay.Is this something that is usually done?
I know I'll have to get 16 cables for this.Just wondering if this is a bit of overkill.
I don't mind doing it if it is a good Idea.
Cheers

Jason.
 
I've got an Ibanez Roadstar II e-bass...it has dual passive humbucking soapbars on it. It has a pretty strong output and I've been able to go direct in some cases...never tried it on the 388. I don't have the LINE INPUT specs in front of me and I can't know the specs on your guitar's output, but the bottom line is that if it worked, it worked, and no matter what the TRIM knob on the 388 only effects the MIC input. So, if the shoe fits...

Regarding bringing the SEND/RCV jacks out front, sure that's done. It doesn't really matter if its overkill does it? If that's something that helps your workflow or there's some other reason you ought to just throw convention to the wind anyway. Just keep in mind that the RCV jack has a breakpoint in it. What I mean is that you can plug something into the SEND jack and you basically have a pre fader send that doesn't interrupt the signal going through the rest of the channel strip. But you plug something into the RCV jack and now the signal path is broken. Look at the block diagram. The simple solution to this is if you have the SEND RCV jacks extended to a patchbay then, when not USING the jacks (when they are not being patched to a device) you'll have to have a TS-TS cable patched between the SEND and RCV jacks on the patchbay. Does that make sense?
 

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sweetbeats said:
Just keep in mind that the RCV jack has a breakpoint in it. What I mean is that you can plug something into the SEND jack and you basically have a pre fader send that doesn't interrupt the signal going through the rest of the channel strip. But you plug something into the RCV jack and now the signal path is broken. Look at the block diagram. The simple solution to this is if you have the SEND RCV jacks extended to a patchbay then, when not USING the jacks (when they are not being patched to a device) you'll have to have a TS-TS cable patched between the SEND and RCV jacks on the patchbay.
Click to expand...

or use the patch bay "HALF NORMALLED" mode (I guess this depends on the particular patch bay, how you can set this - with some you switch out front to back) this would extend the "break point" to the patchbay and even still give you the possibility to tap the prefader send w/o interupting signal to the channel strip. (that'd be pretty slick...:cool:)
 
Excellent point. If you have a "normalling" patchbay (where an upper jack is connected to a corresponding lower jack even with connections made at the back) the cables from the 388 send/RCV jacks would be connected until you plugged something in to the corresponding jacks at the front...that is what you'd want.

What kind of patchbay do you have? And does this make sense?
 
You guys are GREAT!

My patchbay is a behringer ultra patch.It has a 3 way switch on the top of each patch point that is for normal,half normal and thru.

So I would set these to half normal or normal.???
And when these are normaled, I don't have to patch the front with cables until I am ready to patch in effects,right?
And when patching in effects,I just go about the same way as usual.SND to effect in,effect out to RCV.

Thanks again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jason.
 
Do half normalled...that will be JUST like the jacks on the back act. Full normalled would allow you to plug a cable into either the extended SEND or RCV jack without breaking the path from the input jack to the channel strip, but you WANT the RCV jack to break the path so that by plugging up to the RCV jack it diverts the signal out the SEND jack. In half normalled you can "sniff" the signal off the SEND jack without breaking the signal flow through the channel strip. That there gives you your extra pre-fade send. Then if you plug something into the RCV jack you get full "insert" functionality. I hope that makes sense. If you set it to "thru" then you'd have to patch a cable on the front of the patchbay.

Hope that makes sense.
 
OK,I think I get it.
So this means I would only have to plug 1 cable into the front of the patchbay instead of 2 when its half normaled??
From effect out to RCV.???

I think Im still a little confused:confused:
 
No-no...the SEND and RCV jacks are equivalent to the TRS "INSERT" jack you'd have on most mixers nowadays...the 388 has two TS jacks instead (you don't have to get those special insert 'Y' cables)...SEND to the insert effect unit's input, RCV to the insert effect unit's output. So you need two TS cables to the patchbay for each channel's SEND/RCV pair, and then you'll need two more TS cables from the patchbay to the insert effect unit.

  1. Set the patchbay jack pair to half-normalled.
  2. Connect the 388 SEND jack to the back of the patchbay using the upper jack.
  3. Connect the 388 RCV jack to the back of the patchbay using the lower jack.
  4. If you just want to "sniff" the 388 send jack without interrupting signal flow on that channel of the 388, then you can plug a cable into the upper jack of that patchbay pair in the front. Because its half-normalled, the upper jack in he back is still connected to the lower one even though you are "sniffing" the SEND jack with your cable plugged into the upper jack in the front. Application: let's say there is a vocal mic plugged into that 388 channel...you can sniff that vocal mic post TRIM and pre-fader for a dedicated mono cue feed for the artist. My Behringer 4-channel headphone amp allows an aux signal into each of the 4 channels...so maybe I could bring the vocalist's voice into just his/her mix and blend the level with a stereo feed all without disturbing anything going to tape.
  5. NOW, if you have a cable plugged into the upper jack in the front and then you plug a cable into the lower jack, the signal will be broken, or rather diverted from the 388 to the SEND jack and back through the RCV jack...no longer will there be that half-normalled connection so you better have the upper cable in the front connected to the input of some unit and the lower cable connected to that unit's output or you will no longer hear anything coming through the mixer. Application: let's say you've got a kick drum on that channel and you want to print that kick drum to tape with some compression. Presto bang-o you grab your two TS patch cables and plug them up to the corresponding output and input jacks on the patchbay (because you love this patchbay thing so much you have all your effects units plugged up to the patchbay too.)
BTW, in this configuration ALL YOU HAVE DONE is extend the SEND and RCV jacks. Tascam designed them to be half-normalled. I'm saying this just so you understand that if you want to read more on how this works or see application diagrams just look in the 388 manual...it'll be the same as how the patchbay will work as long as the SEND jack goes to the upper jack on the patchbay and the RCV jack goes to the lower jack (and that patchbay jack-set is set to half-normalled).

Understand that the SEND/RCV jacks aren't intended to be used as "send" effect I/O...they are designed for "insert" effects. Doesn't mean you can't use them as a send, but you won't be bussing multiple sources to that one send jack like a true send effect buss.

Hopefully we can all say "no analog enthusiast was harmed in the making of or as a result of this post" (i.e. I hope this helps and doesn't confuse things further...)
 
WOW!!!! Thanks again.
I appreciate the detail of these explainations! Phew!!!

So here it goes.....I half normal my patchbay where im going to plug in
the snd/rcv. So now,for example,If Im not using my patchbay,I dont have to
plug any cables in it.And when I want to patch in an effect,I just patch from snd to eff in and eff out to rcv.
 
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