Otari MTR-10 Question

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dodgeaspen

New member
I've been hooking up my MTR to my console and have an odd wiring question. I am running left and right out from the MTR to channel 15 and 16 and I am able to hear my recordings fine. On the other hand, I'm running my wires from the input of the MTR to the sub outs 3 and 4 on the desk. When I try to record from the mixer to the MTR it does not record. The manual states that pin 2 is hot on the MTR and I would need to re solider the wires, but why is that not true with the play side? I can play the MTR but not record, why? also, if I change the 1 side of the cable I would need to change it at the other side of the cable, right? Please help! What am I missing?
 
Ed, there's something else going on because pin 2 hot vs. pin 3 hot won't effect the signal getting to the input...BOTH pins 2 and 3 are hot in a balanced run, they are just out of phase so regardless of which pin is hot you should still get signal...what mixer are you using? And am I understanding correctly that you cannot monitor the source at all on the MTR-10 whether recording or at idle?

BTW, just for the future, if you are interconnecting a pin 2 hot device to a pin 3 hot device you just reverse pins 2 and 3 at one end of the cable, otherwise you've just come full circle again if you reverse both ends.
 
sweetbeats said:
Ed, there's something else going on because pin 2 hot vs. pin 3 hot won't effect the signal getting to the input...BOTH pins 2 and 3 are hot in a balanced run, they are just out of phase so regardless of which pin is hot you should still get signal...what mixer are you using? And am I understanding correctly that you cannot monitor the source at all on the MTR-10 whether recording or at idle?

BTW, just for the future, if you are interconnecting a pin 2 hot device to a pin 3 hot device you just reverse pins 2 and 3 at one end of the cable, otherwise you've just come full circle again if you reverse both ends.
Click to expand...

Funny, I was just going to message you before I started this thread. The mixer is a Mackie 1604 VLZ Pro. Yes you are understanding me correctly. Now that you mention it, doing one side of the cable makes sense not that you mentioned it. What do you think? I also tried an Otari 5050 with the same results. The sub outs and it work when I used them with the 38 but maybe something went wrong.
 
Ed, what cable are you using to connect from the sub out on the Mackie to the MTR?

Here's the first thing: You said your manual states that the MTR is pin 2 hot, but according to page 2-9 of the operations and service manual that I have pin 3 is hot ("high").

Here's the second thing: I'm not convinced that the sub outs on the Mackie are balanced. The manual is dubious but the block diagram differentiates between the L, R and mono outputs and the other outputs...with the L, R and mono outs it shows two interlaced amplifier icons (the melded triangles) which tells me they are indicating a differential balancing amplifier, whereas all the other outputs just show a single triangle for each output. They talk about the outputs being "balanced/unbalanced" but I have a hunch that what they are saying is that you can connect those outputs to balanced and unbalanced devices because they went to the trouble of making sure that the contacts in the jack will do the right things regardless of whether you connect TRS plugs or TS plugs (the 1604 manual does talk about that...)

Kinda sneaky if I'm right but I have a feeling I'm right, and if that is the case then what you are trying to do is to connect the input of a pin 3 hot device to an unbalanced pin 2 hot output...If I'm right your output is getting shunted to ground, and this would be why it is happening with the 5050 because that is also balanced pin 3 hot. The 38 works because you are going from unbalanced to unbalanced and there are only two "pins" at the 38's input.

I think what you need to do is (regardless of whether or not you are using an XLR to TRS cable or an XLR to TS cable) is swap pins 2 and 3 at the XLR end...i.e. make sure that the TIP of the TRS/TS end connects to pin 3 of the XLR...betcha it works.
 
sweetbeats said:
Ed, what cable are you using to connect from the sub out on the Mackie to the MTR?

Here's the first thing: You said your manual states that the MTR is pin 2 hot, but according to page 2-9 of the operations and service manual that I have pin 3 is hot ("high").

Here's the second thing: I'm not convinced that the sub outs on the Mackie are balanced. The manual is dubious but the block diagram differentiates between the L, R and mono outputs and the other outputs...with the L, R and mono outs it shows two interlaced amplifier icons (the melded triangles) which tells me they are indicating a differential balancing amplifier, whereas all the other outputs just show a single triangle for each output. They talk about the outputs being "balanced/unbalanced" but I have a hunch that what they are saying is that you can connect those outputs to balanced and unbalanced devices because they went to the trouble of making sure that the contacts in the jack will do the right things regardless of whether you connect TRS plugs or TS plugs (the 1604 manual does talk about that...)

Kinda sneaky if I'm right but I have a feeling I'm right, and if that is the case then what you are trying to do is to connect the input of a pin 3 hot device to an unbalanced pin 2 hot output...If I'm right your output is getting shunted to ground, and this would be why it is happening with the 5050 because that is also balanced pin 3 hot. The 38 works because you are going from unbalanced to unbalanced and there are only two "pins" at the 38's input.

I think what you need to do is (regardless of whether or not you are using an XLR to TRS cable or an XLR to TS cable) is swap pins 2 and 3 at the XLR end...i.e. make sure that the TIP of the TRS/TS end connects to pin 3 of the XLR...betcha it works.
Click to expand...

I got mixed up. Your right, pin 3 is hot on the Otari. However, pin 2 is hot on the cable. I'm using a Hosa PXM105 Audio Cable, XLR Male-1/4" TS Male. This is an unbalanced cable. Like you mentioned in the post my mixer does say it can take balanced or unbalanced inputs. Would it make any diffrence if I tried to run the cables to the monitor out to see if it works? What do you think?
 
According to the block diagram all the 1/4 inch outputs are configured the same so no I don't expect that it will make a difference if you use the monitor outs.

I really think the ultimate solution is to open up the XLR plug and switch the wires going to pins 2 and 3.

Another thing to try is this: when you insert the TS cable plug into the jack on the Mackie, do you feel two clicks? Like there's a detent before it is all the way inserted? If so, try just inserting it to that first detent and see if you can pass signal to the mtr's input amp.
 
sweetbeats said:
According to the block diagram all the 1/4 inch outputs are configured the same so no I don't expect that it will make a difference if you use the monitor outs.

I really think the ultimate solution is to open up the XLR plug and switch the wires going to pins 2 and 3.

Another thing to try is this: when you insert the TS cable plug into the jack on the Mackie, do you feel two clicks? Like there's a detent before it is all the way inserted? If so, try just inserting it to that first detent and see if you can pass signal to the mtr's input amp.
Click to expand...

I've tried plugging the cable half way on things in the past and never thought about doing it for this application. I tried it and it records like a dream. I know I should have emailed you in the first place. Thanks a million! If you ever get to Ohio I'll spring for a happy meal.

Everything now works on this deck except for the rewind button. It will RR using the RTZ or the jog lever but not the RR button. I might be able to see if the motherboard or switch is cracked. After I fix that I'll send it out for alignment and calibration. I guess I need to be thinking about what noise reduction I want to use. I'm pretty sure I'll get the DBX 150X Thanks again Cory!
 
Sweet!

To ensure a good connection (I never like plugging cables halfway except in a pinch) think about swapping pins 2 and 3 on the XLR as a long-term plan.

BTW, I don't know why anybody would want or need n/r on a 15/30ips machine like that, especially if you cal it to 355 or :eek: 520 using +9 tape or the ATR tape. Just my 2p but I haven't even cal'ed my BR-20T yet and its so quiet and since it was at a video post house I'd be very surprised if it wasn't cal'ed to 250...

Something to think about.
 
sweetbeats said:
Sweet!

To ensure a good connection (I never like plugging cables halfway except in a pinch) think about swapping pins 2 and 3 on the XLR as a long-term plan.

BTW, I don't know why anybody would want or need n/r on a 15/30ips machine like that, especially if you cal it to 355 or :eek: 520 using +9 tape or the ATR tape. Just my 2p but I haven't even cal'ed my BR-20T yet and its so quiet and since it was at a video post house I'd be very surprised if it wasn't cal'ed to 250...

Something to think about.
Click to expand...

I can't find in the manual if this machine is a +6 or +9 machine. It mentioned using Scotch 226 for the cal tape. 226 is a +6 tape according to Beck's SS thread. Any thoughts?
 
My hunch is that +6 was the norm when the MTR-10 was introduced, but I'm comfortable saying it'll have no trouble operating at 355nWb/m or even 520nWb/m as an operating standard...am I wrong about that, folks?
 
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