Is it ok to apply eq to old master?

Wow, thanks so much Miroslav, that sounds fantastic! - how I always thought it should sound. Is there any chance I send you (maybe by PM?) my eq'd WAV file for you to perhaps have a go at treating like this?

No problem....either post it or give me a download link (I don't think email will work, it's probably too large)

If you want...send me a copy of the original, that way I don't mess with your EQ version, so you can compare....either one.
 
Thanks Miroslav. I've sent a PM with a link to the original 24/96 file and the WAV of my eq'd version. It is a bit clumsy as I've used weTransfer and the link is enormous but hopefully it will work. Please let me know if you get it ok else I'll have to work out another way of sending it!
 
OK...so I'm looking at the files, and it looks like the original digital transfer file is already fully normalized...which I think you must have done...?
That makes it a bit awkward to work with...because if/when I apply any kind of processing that boosts, it will push the total level into the red.
Now...I can still get around that by simply lowering the total level before processing, bouncing it and then normalizing it back up...but it's kinda backwards working that way.
I can also get around it another way...and just DA back out and do the processing in the analog domain with my hardware EQs...and then AD it back into the DAW.
TBH, I don't think either method will sacrifice any audio quality...just commenting on the options and something to consider in the future.

Your better off saving normalizing for the end step...after any processing/mixing is done, and that would also apply to individual tracks.
I've seen some newbs record tracks, and then immediately normalize them to "get more volume"...and most DAW will hid the truth from you, that you are no over "0" dBFS and technically clipping, because their processing is able to deal with it...but you get bitten later, when you try and bounce out to a 16bit finished file.

Also...TBH...I don't really hear a volume "drop" in the vocal after the intro...it's just how they mixed the vocal, and the backing tracks are pretty punchy, while the vocal is a bit subdued. Anyway, I think some of that will change after processing...and I don't want to try and raise the level of the vocal sections, because that also raises everything else in those sections.
I know...and you know...that ideally if you had gotten your hands on the multitrack tape, you could basically remix the whole thing...but TBH, I think the mix is quite good for that period, and it just needs a little "lift" due to tape copy and age degradation...so we don't want to try and muck with it too much.

By the way, I checked out the website for your brother...very nice, and even without seeing that, I was going to say that just based on this one song, I could see he was quite talented in both his musicianship and songwriting/arranging skills.
So...all those other songs/albums on the site...did you have to go through the same process as with this one...or were they acquired a different way, and did you have to do any work on them?

I'll get you the finished file soon, I just want to try a couple of approaches and see what works best...tomorrow you should have it. :)
 
I tried to get the lead vocal up as much as possible, but of course, it's hard to avoid sucking up other things with it.
I didn't want to go too far, might be more than you want, but I can back it all off it needed. The overall level is up a bit more, but I can pull that back too.
So best if you hear it, on your system and let me know if you want me to make any adjustments...I have all the processing saved, so easy to adjust and kick out another WAV file.

Out And Running_Test1.wav
 
Hi Miroslav - Thanks so much! It sounds terrific now - the drums are much crisper, the vocals better - can hear the reverb more clearly - and the guitars fantastic - the gritty SG fills and the Strat lead more prominent. If you have time to make any adjustments. could I ask if you could maybe go for broke with most prominent vocal and lead guitar break - run amok as it were? I'm so grateful for your help with this I can't tell you.

In answer to your other questions - the studio that digitised the tape on 2005 normalised all the files - I was a little surprised too! I'm glad you thought the mix pretty good for the time - but needed that lift you have given it! Did you process in analogue in the end?

Yes I wish we had the original 2 inch multitrack! Mick had to sell them a few years after the recording because he was so short of cash. The BBC bought them off him and used them to record the new (at the time) Dr Who theme tune! I would love to remix the album - there is one other track on it in particular I would like to re-work. It is quite a delicate song that I think has been spoilt by some heavy handed synth played by a session musician. I've been told it would be impossible to remove it now - do you have any thoughts on this? Maybe I could PM you the song?

Thanks for checking out the site and for your kind comments about his playing, songwriting and arranging. It has been a mixed road to releasing the albums. The first 2 were very limited addition vinyl releases (30 copies) made in 1972 and 1975. Recorded in a bedroom using Sound On Sound on a Tandberg 3000x with a Shure Unidyne III (1972) and in stereo bouncing between to 3000xs (1975). They suddenly got a bit of a cult following in the USA in 2004-5 and a German producer re-released on vinyl and CD using copies of his original (rare) vinyl. I knew nothing about it until a friend told me he had heard some songs on USA radio! Having not been able to listen to the music much at all after Mick's shocking early death in '87, I felt energised by this had Mick's two 16 track studio albums from '77 and '79 digitised -one of them being the one the track I sent you came from - and the German guy released the pure copy with no re-mastering. All the other releases are from old tapes and cassettes of mine that I have found over the last 14 years or so - some purely by accident. I've tried my best to master these and have been fairly pleased with the results - sometimes astonished at the quality from ancient cassettes. A Japanese collector who loves Mick's music has helped with the releases. It has been a labour of love and never made me any money - in fact quite the opposite! - but have loved every moment.

Thanks again for helping me with this 40th anniversary recording!
 
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OK...I will "go for broke" with the vocals and lead. :)

Sure...you can PM me that other tune to check out. If I can do anything with it, it's my pleasure.
 
OK...got it.
You mean the horn-like synth parts....yeah, that might be a bit complicated to pull back without affecting the rest, but I'll play around with it.
I have a variety of software tool features that I rarely use...so this is kinda fun to see what's possible...and in the digital domain, there is a lot possible these days if you have the right tools...but sometimes you just can't make it do what you want. :)

So all you want with it is that synth pulled back some...nothing else...no EQ adjustments, etc...?
Depending on how far I can get with it...I'll use my judgment if I think anything else is needed...but if you have something else specific, let me know.
 
Yes the horn like synth part! I love the real violin but not the synth in the connecting passages. It would be great if you could see what you could do. Maybe also put some more top end on to give more sparkle like the other track and try to pull out the lead guitar more in the break? Thanks again!
 
It's hard to push the vocal without sucking up the other elements that are in the center with the vocal and that have some of the same frequencies....and it may be addictive at first, hearing that brighter/louder sound, but you have to step back and consider the overall mix, not just one element. Of course...it's your song (well, your brother's)...so whatever you prefer is fine with me.

OK...here's the "go for broke" version. I think if I push it any more, something WILL break. :D

Out And Running_Test2.wav


And here is one more, a little less "broke", that sits in-between the 1st version and the one above.

Out And Running_Test3.wav


I'll tackle the other song tomorrow...
 
Thanks again! I see what you mean about the "go for broke" version - I liked it on first play but then played the Test 3 less "broke" version and like this much better - I think this is my favourite! I'm going to wait a day then play them all again to make another comparison.But I like all the versions and will continue to play them all. All the best with the other song - I'm on the road most of the day tomorrow so forgive me if I can't get back as quickly as I would like.

Would be grateful for anyone else's comments on which they prefer of these!
 
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Didn't forget about your other song...I was checking it out and doing a few preliminary passes, and for sure, this is not going to be a simple task because the synth horns are not only loud, they're also spread out across the whole stereo image.
If they were panned in on spot, it would be a lot simpler to tame them...but with them spread L/R, they're mixed in with everything else. I many be able to do a little bit something in the spots where it's just the drums and bass playing with the synth horns...there's some separation in the frequencies...but not sure about the other sections.
I'll give it a bit more effort on the next attempt...I didn't have as much time today.
 
Thanks for the update on Steppenwolf. I would really appreciate anything you can do with those horns! I played test 2 of the other track really loud in the car today and it sounds fantastic!
 
OK...I think this is about the best I can do with fixing the synth horns.

It's a complex arrangement to start...the original mix was obviously not balanced well...plus there appear to be different kinds of EQ/Processing in some of the sections, and I'm pretty sure it's probably because the song was done is some kind of stages. I mean...I doubt the tracks were all complete takes from start to finish when I listen to the different parts.
I think it was somewhat of an ambitious arrangement, but I'm not sure what "they" were listening to when the mix was done considering the synth horns, and also some other aspects.

Not trying to criticize...just making the point that it isn't an easy thing to fix after the fact...but I think you already know that. :)
Hope this is somewhat acceptable to you...and to Mick.

Findlay02_Test01.wav
 
Wow Miroslav, you've done a fantastic job with this! I love it and I'm pretty sure Mick would have too - much closer to what he would have wanted. I can picture the grin on his face listening to it. A big thank-you from him too.

I'm intrigued by your comments about the song being done in stages and the tracks not being complete takes from start to finish. I wonder if you would have more time to go into any detail about your thoughts on this? I'm trying to piece together all my knowledge of these recordings. Studio time was very limited as it cost about £100 a day even in '79 and he had to do things quickly and piecemeal when he could get the session drummer, keyboard player and Ric Sanders for the violin. And your thoughts on the other aspects of the mix and arrangement? I guess I always new how difficult it would be to fix. I so wish I had that 16 track master..... I have thought for a while that Alison Krauss and Union Station could do a great version of this song.

I'm so grateful for all your wonderful help on these tracks.

I'd love to send you the complete album and artwork and hope you might enjoy it in its entirely. Would that be ok?

Cheers

Andrew
 
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I could be wrong...I mean, they could have assembled all the players and done it as a straight take for all the elements.
What made me think it might have been in some kind of stages, was the way things varied so much in level and EQ balance in the different sections...but then, maybe it IS because they were doing it as one take that there was less control...?

I guess it's just me trying to understand why the mix was out of balance like that...but then, at the time, maybe that's what they were hearing, and wanted that.
Very hard to say when we are simply guessing at what exactly happened. Were you also at these sessions?

Anyway...glad you like how it came out.
Sure...if you want to send me the whole album, I would like to check it out and hear things a bit more in context. Back then concept albums were more the norm, so you kinda have to hear the whole thing rather than view it as a collection of individual songs...and then some things become more obvious AFA intent. :)
 
I realise that I'm probably too late to say this but the first thing to do with any transfer is to calibrate your replay chain to the tones on the tape. This is especially important if any noise reduction has been used on the tape. Hopefully your Dolby A tape will have tones on it as, without the tones, there is no way that you can guarantee that the Dolby is working properly.

Nowadays I always transfer tapes flat with no noise reduction decoding and then do the decoding as a separate stage. That way I always have the original to fall back on and it also allows me to take advantage of any advances in decoder technology like the software decoders that are starting to appear.
 
Just noticed your other thread where you mention Cambridge. Was this tape recorded at Spaceward? If so, it will have used IEC eq rather than NAB eq as well as being Dolby A encoded. Fortunately the Spaceward engineers were very thorough with their tones and they usually used BASF tape so their tapes survive pretty well (I've transferred quite a few here).
 
I've sent you a PM with the whole album with your revisions and the artwork/lyrics that went with the double CD. The other tracks are just my attempts at adding a bit of extra sparkle. I'd very much appreciate your thoughts.

I only managed to attend a couple of the sessions. The one I remember most was the violin recording on "Steppenwolf". Ric arrived with his beautiful old violin and played the parts from Mick's score pretty quickly as I recall - just a couple of takes for each part. At that stage there were no synth parts - just gutars, banjo, bass, drums and vocals and and it sounded much better! There might have been quite a few takes with the female harmony vocals but just single takes with the guitars and banjos. Only one take with the lead guitar too.
 
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