Need advice on testing a G16S for buying

G

gilwe

New member
I took a Fostex G16S I consider buying for testing, and I need some advice on what to check for etc.

It's probably from 1992 (this is what is written on the heads) and visually I can see it's quite in a good condition - i.e. I can't see much wear at all on the heads / transport. At least not as the last MSR16 and E16 I saw had... It also comes with two Fosetx 5030 Line Amplifier units (8 in RCA , 8 out RCA, 8 in XLR, 8 out XLP, BAL/UNBAL switch) and connectors.

So far I encountered a few problems -

1. When speeding the tape (forward/rewind) sometimes it works fine (i.e. very high speed) but than sometimes when you stop and rewind/forward again it either won't move unless you turn the reel with hands, or will turn very slowly, like play speed.
The seller has told me I might not have put the tape correctly but I don't think so.

2. When Rewinding/Forwarding, the tape is "eaten" at one side (external edge) just at the point where it touches the left most transport pin (under the heads block). This looks very severe to me - should it only need an adjustment of the transport rout ?

3. When turning it on, meters leds of a few track are lighten constantly, at different level. The seller said it might be due to not connecting the Line Amplifiers. Sound strange to me as I not recall having this with the MSR16 I checked out and my Fostex M80... Anyhow, I connected the outputs/inputs as following and still the same thing.

1st unit
8 RCA outs to G16S 8 ins (tracks 1-8)
8 RCA ins from G16S 8 outs (tracks 1-8)
8 XLR ins from patch bay , 8 XLR outs to mixer (tracks 1-8)

2nd unit
8 RCA outs to G16S 8 ins (tracks 9-16)
8 RCA ins from G16S 8 outs (tracks 9-16)
8 XLR ins from patch bay , 8 XLR outs to mixer (tracks 9-16)



Thanks !
 
Last edited:
Things I am pretty sure of from reading your post;

1 - This deck may need a reel motor replacement or at the very least a complete mechanical check up and alignment.

2 - either the deck itself or those external units are defective as those meter readings should not be happening with no signal being fed into them.

3 - If is was me, unless this deck is selling for under 300 bucks, I would look elsewhere because you may well have to spend several hundred more in service to get it working as it should.

4 - keep shopping.:cool:

Cheers! :)
 
I guess you're right,

BTW I just noticed that when I run a tape trought it forward for a while, a thick layer of tape material is left all over the transport !!!
Such heavy that the tape sticks to the pins. It this as the tape I'm using very old ?

Also when about a helf of the reel is loaded (so each wheel has about 50% of the tape), Forward will almost not move on... very slow. But if I Rewind from that position, it will do it right.

The strange thing is that the machine looks rather new, but still has all that problems, while the MSR-16 I was looking into looked MUCH used but worked just fine.
 
Thanks Ghost,

you've mentioned that this occurs particullary on Ampex 456 tapes made before 95 - is this a common problem on Ampex tapes or the ones made before 95 has a particular problem ?
Are Ampex 456 tapes made after 95 sensitive just as well ?
 
The problems of Sticky Shed can happen to any tape if it is stored poorly in the wrong temperature/humidity setting long enough.

Some tapes, because of their chemical binding materials break down faster or slower then others.

After 1995, Ampex did start to realize there was a problem and reacted to it by changing their binder material on the 456 formulation.

Sticky Shed can be avoided by maintaining a good storage habits practice and occasionally, taking the tapes out of storage and giving them a rewind and play-through and then putting them back in storage. The problem with this practice is that many people keep the tapes but end up selling the machines and thus have no means of exercising their tape library until years latter when they grab a deal on Ebay to get back into the hobby and then the Shed issue almost can't help but rear it's ugly head.

Remember, baking a tape can restore it by in effect drying up and hardening back the binder or glue material that oozes and makes the mess on your transports heads and guides.

Cheers! :)
 
OK,

I talked to a Fostex tech center here and told them about the machine. We quite agreed that the machine needs calibration / alignment and that it might have an elecronic problem. Calibration should cost abdout 100$. So first thing I'm gonna take it for inspection of which the seller agreed to pay 50% of (about 20% each). He aslo agreed to pay up to 100$ of the cost that will be needed to put the machine up to specs and running 100%.

That means that I would be able to get it calibrated/aligned at the exact same cost he first asked for (550$), while I'll carry the cost for the electronic repair, if such is needed (that's the cost beyond the 100$).

I also consulted an electronic engineer friend, who said the electronic problems may be related with the power supply not functioning right... So I guess I could have a perfect working machine for about a 700$ instead of the 550$ I already intended to pay. We'll see after the technical inspection.

I also found a B16 of which the seller also ask for the same price (550$) but he also intend to take it to a full calibration/alignment and inpection so I get a perfect working machine for the price,
but so far it seems that I might have a better sounding/performing machine with the G16S if this ones comes up right than with the B16...

Is the G16S much better than the B16 anyway ? one thing for sure it's much younger...
 
I have an old B16 which hasn't been used for more than ten years. About 5 years or so back, it was hard to find spares for the machine and spares were very expensive. By that time someone wanted to use the machine for location recording and I found out a couple of led meters didn't work properly. I don't know how the situation is right now, but I would advise you to find out before you buy a machine. Call the tech again and ask whether parts (heads) are still available and for what price.

IMHO the Dolby S system is superior to the C, so the G16S should sound better, but not very much because of the C/S issue, but because of the better electronics.
 
Han, as you worked with both the B16 and G24S,
how better really is the G series from the B ? And how you define "better" in this case - better frequency response ? more details ? fatter ? warmer ?

Also I;m not quite sure my Yamaha 1604 mixer is going to fit the G16S - does it have a +4db inputs ? IT does come with two Fostex 5030 Line Amplifiers (convert -10db to +4db?)

Thanks.
 
Last edited:
My way of recording is very simple, I listen very carefully to the source and how it's being reproduced by the recording gear. The more true to the source, the more I like it.

The best recorder (IMNSHO) is a well aligned two inch 16 track recorder for multitracking. I read a post from Slipperman on the Gearslutz forums in which he says that an Ampex ATR102 1" two track (yes, one inch two track) makes everything else sound like a cassette.

I've worked with a G24S only once and it sounds very good, better than the much older B16. The G24S has more tape width per track.

Another problem is that the B16 is very old, I mean any B16 is very old and spares might be a big problem. That's why I would go for a younger machine and actually I would not go for a Fostex, but rather for a Tascam MSR. I have worked with my MSR24S for six /seven years, almost every day and this machine sounds very true to the source, some bands liked it better than the two inch machines I have. (I don't)

Buying an analog machine can be a pain in the ass, in case you have to swap heads, fix problems it will give you severe headache.

So be absolutely sure you buy a machine that is in good shape and good working order. A headblock of a Studer two inch can cost you $12K, a pinch roller $850.

The head of a Fostex B16 was $1400 in 1990, it may be that there are no heads available anymore.

So, if I may give you any advice: don't buy any machine before you are absolutely sure the machine is good. I've always bought gear from my gearpimp who has a very good reputation and service.
 
Took it to the elecronics engineer today -

what we found was:

* Pinch roller is not good and has to be replaced - probably the cause for the debris left over the transport rout when forwarding/rewinding (this is probably not the old tapes)

* The tension arm circuit may be bad as the rollers does not change speed as expected as you change tension - this may be the cause for the fast rewind/forward rotating slow sometimes

* There're probably a few more electronic problems causing the leds to light up constantly and popping when playing/stopping/inserting channgels for input


The seller now agree to trade with my Fostex M80 and a few more bucks.

I think I'll try to get that pinch roller and have those electronic problems fixed. Do Fostex sell pinch rollers for this machine ?
Is it a standard part ?
 
Last edited:
It's probably the tape but some machines will go into shuttle speed if you hit the rewind or fast foward twice. If you hit the stop twice they may go into edit mode, Paul.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top