MS-16 story

[evm1024]

I don't think I can keep up the story line at quite the pace of Sweetbeats but it is time to give the MS-16 I bought a thread of its own.

This is an offshoot of this thread: http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=266261

This MS-16 is a 15 ips machine with 2 dx8ds noise reduction units. The heads appear to have very low hours on a JRF relap. The transport has a few noises but is quick and responsive. Rubber is OK but will need some attention in the next year.

I ran some 1" video tape through it as that I don't have any 1" audio tape or even a takeup reel. Then I ran some 1/2" tape without problems and was able to get playback on the correct tracks.

The only defect is that it does not have the track arming panel thus I cannot test recording until I find one. But for the $250 I paid for it I think it is outstanding. (relapped heads alone....)

Here are a few questions, comments and needs.

Manual. Anybody got one to spare?

Arming board, Ditto, I need one. There must be one on the list gathering dust.

OK on to the DBX. If you take the DBX units out do you need a jumper plug to take their place? I assume so but I want confirmation. I'll open it up over the weekend but always nice to have some light first.

I was looking on the web for info (manuals, brochure etc) and came across someone who used them in their own day. He recommended an IC upgrade, changing out the EQ caps and a different bias coupling cap (to allow for +9).

He spoke of some testing where he got 75 dB S/N ratio without DBX and commented on how it "opened up" the sound.

I most likely will go that route. So this thread will sooner or later become a MS-16 mods thread. Just got to get a few things....

Regards, Ethan

 

[analogkid]

Damn....... $250? *drool*




AK

 

[evm1024]

A little time

I've gotten some time to work on this deck. Just general clean up and dusting out. The channel cards are quite dusty so I'll have to go after them one at a time with a fine brush. Today I pulled the top plate and started cleaning the mechanical parts.

Here is a photo with the headstack out.

Oh, This machine was owned by J. C. Penney. Perhaps it was taken care of for most of its life.

 

[sweetbeats]

J.C. Penny??? What would they want with a 1" 16-track??

I love those reel adaptors, and that is a huge tach roller. Looks pretty good, Ethan.

Keep 'em coming!

Pictures...yahyahyah PICTURES!!!

 

[ethyrvalve]

wow, crazy small world. Tomorrow morning I'm looking at an MS-16 that's going for 500 locally. If everything works out, I hope to use it on more elaborate songs and keep using my 58 for simpler arrangements.
I'm keeping my expectations realistic after my MCI 1" 8-track let-down.
Getting ahead of myself... i'm eager to try out the greg norman mod on the channel cards for +9 operation.

 

[evm1024]

Must mod, Must mod

wow, crazy small world. Tomorrow morning I'm looking at an MS-16 that's going for 500 locally. If everything works out, I hope to use it on more elaborate songs and keep using my 58 for simpler arrangements.
I'm keeping my expectations realistic after my MCI 1" 8-track let-down.
Getting ahead of myself... i'm eager to try out the greg norman mod on the channel cards for +9 operation.

Hope you get your machine. We can share tips etc...

Tell me more about the Greg Norman mods. I only have this (see below) for mods.

Regards, ethan

------------

I rebuilt many of these in LA back in the 80's and early 90's. Yes, it's a solid performer. No, it's not very revealing. Yes, that can be fixed. Mods I did to open them up included 600v /us LT1358 opamps for the 1 v/us slew rate 4558's that it comes with. The EQ caps were replaced with Wima FKP-2 polyprops. The bias feeder cap was changed to Wima 1k v FKP-2 so the bias could be set to +9 operating level. Set it up to +9 and it kicks. You also get a 75 db s/n ratio without the useless dbx noise (sound) reduction. I set bias using the Audio Precision analyzer with a THD vs frequency test. I got THD down to .2% at +9 db from the stock .55% at +3 db. The top end was flat out to 22k hz dipping a bit after that but still recording well into the 25k hz zone.

Hope you can get tape for it.
________________________________________
Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

 

[evm1024]

A whole A/V division

J.C. Penny??? What would they want with a 1" 16-track??

I love those reel adaptors, and that is a huge tach roller. Looks pretty good, Ethan.

Keep 'em coming!

Pictures...yahyahyah PICTURES!!!

J.C. penneys, that what I thought at first. But it does have stickers for inventory control for the Penneys Audio/Visual department. I suspect that they had a whole in house ad production department....

Yup, a honker tach roller. Ball bearings everywhere.

Here are some heads.

-Ethan

 

[sweetbeats]

My 58 came from a power company in Washington State. Not sure how they would have used it...somebody suggested it may have been for call-logging but as far as I can tell it was never modded for low speed and it didn't show the wear and tear of a production deck.

Are the guides on the MS16 roller guides? What about the lifters?


That is really cool. Congrats, Ethan.

Hey, have you thought about just getting a manual from Tascam? Yeah it'd be a reprint and probably set you back $50, but it might be worth it. The "reprint" I prdered from them a couple years ago was $45 and what they ended up sending me was an original print copy in the Tascam binder...!

It took months...I think it may have ended up coming from Japan.

The MS16 is pretty neat with those special sync functions on track 16.

I may mod the amp cards someday on my 58...I've heard that there are similar mods to the 58 cards that Jim Williams has done that really improve the response...someday...

The more I spend time working on the older Tascam gear that I've acquired, the more I appreciate what they produced for the price-range for which it was marketed.

The MS16 has a thick machined aluminum plate that all the transport components (motors, solenoids, head-block, etc.) mount to like the 58 right?

 

[evm1024]

nope

I ordered the MS-16 manual yesterday. Back ordered at least a week. None to be found on the net.

The lifters and guides are not roller bearings. Just straight rods. Some say that roller bearings here introduce bearing noise....

THe base plate appears to be a heavy stamping rather than milled. The headstack plate is of course milled.

Got to find out more abouut all the mods....

--Ehtan

 

[Richard King]

Congrats on the J.C. Penney MS-16. I used to sell some pretty good equipment into corporate AV departments. Usually once delivered the equipment was very well taken care of and saw little everyday use. If one of the AV crew was in a band it would see a bit more use (on weekends), but nowhere near the use it would see in a full time studio. You probably did very well.

 

[pianodano]

You really lucked out in getting one with the metal hub adapters. They are worth some money now. I am sorry I saw your post late. I have a spare manual. Looks like I should maybe take it somewhere and have a couple dozen copies made for guys that need them. Lol. My brother ordered a manual for his console and was told bo'd around 30 days. He got it a year and a half later.

You're gonna love your machine. Don't screw with the speed. Everyone I have ever talked to says they are worthless at 30 ips. Fwiw, there is nothing wrong with the Dbx. It does exactly what it's supposed to do.

Jim Williams is the man on upgrades on the cards. Somebody over at Tascam Forums had him do their cards a while back. I think it's about 75.00 a card to upgrade. Let me know if you have problems with your cards. I have at least 20 spares. I know of nothing else to do except start recording then get a synchronizer, and prepare to be amazed all while having a ball watching that machine do it's thing.

Did you see the link I put on your other thread about the headstack for sale on Thievebay?

Danny

 

[evm1024]

You really lucked out in getting one with the metal hub adapters. They are worth some money now. I am sorry I saw your post late. I have a spare manual. Looks like I should maybe take it somewhere and have a couple dozen copies made for guys that need them. Lol. My brother ordered a manual for his console and was told bo'd around 30 days. He got it a year and a half later.

You're gonna love your machine. Don't screw with the speed. Everyone I have ever talked to says they are worthless at 30 ips. Fwiw, there is nothing wrong with the Dbx. It does exactly what it's supposed to do.

Jim Williams is the man on upgrades on the cards. Somebody over at Tascam Forums had him do their cards a while back. I think it's about 75.00 a card to upgrade. Let me know if you have problems with your cards. I have at least 20 spares. I know of nothing else to do except start recording then get a synchronizer, and prepare to be amazed all while having a ball watching that machine do it's thing.

Did you see the link I put on your other thread about the headstack for sale on Thievebay?

Danny

I did see that quote. Too bad about the manual. But then again the one I have is on back order. Perhaps I should see if I can cancel the order....

This deck is missing the arming panel (plus its cable). Happen to have one lying around?

The guides and heads make me think that it is a low hour machine. relapped heads. Small wear on the guides.

I did see that 30 ips dropped the bottom out of the low end. No plans for that here. I will most likely DIY the channel card mods. I have that brief info on the mods but when I get done cleaning the cards I'll see if Jim is open to sharing what he does with the DIY crowd.

Any and all help and insight is welcome.

Regards, Ethan

 

[evm1024]

Hoping so

Congrats on the J.C. Penney MS-16. I used to sell some pretty good equipment into corporate AV departments. Usually once delivered the equipment was very well taken care of and saw little everyday use. If one of the AV crew was in a band it would see a bit more use (on weekends), but nowhere near the use it would see in a full time studio. You probably did very well.

Richard, I'm hoping so.

Regards, Ethan

 

[pianodano]

This deck is missing the arming panel (plus its cable). Happen to have one lying around?

Regards, Ethan

That could be a problem. I am not sure if I have a spare or not. I will need to open some boxes and see. I've been buying parts for them for some time now.

 

[evm1024]

That could be a problem. I am not sure if I have a spare or not. I will need to open some boxes and see. I've been buying parts for them for some time now.

Not too much of a problem. More of a chance to build one from the schematic while I search for one.

Thanks for looking for me!

-Ethan

 

[ethyrvalve]

here's what i saw about the greg norman mod:

Greg recently relayed to me the procedure for modifying my MS-16 for high-output tapes. All you need to do is replace C42 on each channel's card with a ~200pF cap. I used some polyester film ones from DigiKey. It was extremely easy to do and progressed quite rapidly. It took me about an hour to do all 16.

 

[Talldog]

Hey Ethan,

I just pm'ed you. I have the arming board and the dbx jumpers with my parts deck if you want 'em. I also have a manual that I could copy but it is pretty big and has some large fold out drawings. Anyone out there got an aq 65 remote laying around?

Ken

 

[pianodano]

Hey Ethan,

I just pm'ed you. I have the arming board and the dbx jumpers with my parts deck if you want 'em. I also have a manual that I could copy but it is pretty big and has some large fold out drawings. Anyone out there got an aq 65 remote laying around?

Ken

I have a spare AQ65. I wouldn't want to part with it's stand though because I use that for my 898 (DA-78's) controller I'll never use the AQ65 because I use a Lynx synchronizer.

Danny

 

[evm1024]

MS-16 rollcall

I have a spare AQ65. I wouldn't want to part with it's stand though because I use that for my 898 (DA-78's) controller I'll never use the AQ65 because I use a Lynx synchronizer.

Danny

Talldog here is you AQ65!

Perhaps we need a MS-16 rollcall.....I know that Ghost has one.

 

[Talldog]

Cool. Danny, shoot me a pm. let me know what you need for the aq65. I totally love my ms16. I have been stockpiling quantagy tape. Ethan, I have a couple of reels of blank used once Ampex tape if you need it. I didn't have any shedding problems with it when I used it the first time. Not parting with my quantagy though.............Oh yeah, I also have an mrl tape if you want to borrow it.