Mackie CR1604-VLZ 16 track mixer for studio use?

S

SuperZebra

New member
Recently bought a 16 track Mackie mixer to use with my Fostex e-16 reel to reel. figured the mixer having 16 mono tracks all with individual inserts it would do the job. I haven't yet got all the necessary insert cables to start recording just yet but I have tested the mixer so I could get the hang of it. However I noticed that the main outs signal was too hot to practically use with studio monitors so I looked up some diagrams and seen that it is suggested to use the C-R/phones out for studio use. I tried that and found it was easier to leave the main mix at unity and then use the C-R/phones volume pot to control the volume sent the the monitors. However I think I now have the issue of recording with mics while using headphones. I cant see any way of splitting the headphone volume and the control room out volume separately meaning that if I wanted to record without feed back I would have to switch off the monitors which obviously isn't practical. Tried searching online and haven't seen much, the user manual also didn't seem to cover up much on the issue. Figured if ask hear in the off chance any one else has tried using the same Mackie mixer for studio use.
 
The 1604 VLZ is okay for 8-track in a split setup but it doesn't really have the features for 16-track studio work. An inline 24-channel console would be preferable, or a 32-channel (or even 48) console for split.
 
I knew a guy using 2 for a 16 track. 0ne mixer strictly for tracking and the other for tape returns. The main outs were used for monitoring but he was using passive monitors wirh a power amp.
On mixdown the two mixers were combined so there was lots of flexibility.

In your situation, couldn't you just bring down the input sensitivity on your powered monitors?
As far as the mixer capabilities for a 16 track machine, while not ideal, it can be made to work.
 
I figured that by using each of the 16 tracks inserts I could send and both recive the signal through the same track without the need to double up on track sizes, having a 32 track mixer for my small studio space unfortunately wouldn’t be practical. I watched a demonstration video on YouTube where the person making the video used the same mixer for his own 16track recordings, he also said that he used the 16 channel inserts to send the signal too and from the reel to reel recorder. YouTube
(Skip to 16:20)
I have krk 5s so I will need to check later if I have a separate volume to adjust.
 
Could you use the main outs for the monitors, and put attenuation pads in between to stop it overloading?
 
How is switching off the monitors not practical? That seems easy enough to me. Also, you could get an outboard monitor controller. Something as simple as the TC Electronics Pilot would work for that.
 
Lol we must have different standards when it comes to practicality and I think that might be the way to go, saves me reaching to the back of the monitors every time I want to record a track. cheers
 
Also, you could run the headphones from an aux send to a headphone amp. Then the Control Room output could just control your monitors.
 
True that could also work. Had a look at the TC level pilot and to be honest it sounds like exactly what im looking for haha.
 
I looked at the video and it seems you can switch back and forth from the mains to headphones. So why wouldn't yoy be able to use the mixer's hp/ mains volume?
Also running the 16 track in and outs on the inserts, I'd highly recommend getting a patchbay. Otherwise you're going to be plugging in and out alot.
Lets say you want to insert a comp or anything on one channel during mixdown. Well, the tape machine needs to be unplugged to free up that insert.

With the tape ins/outs you could get creative and monitor off of the mixdown deck too.
 
You can switch from the mains out to the headphones my problem was that my mains out signal was too hot for home use but I think a tc level pilot will sort that. I see what you mean regarding the insert channels, my recordings aren’t normally too complex so I normally just add effects during the recording stage ie compressing the bass as I’m recording. You mentioned using a patch bay? Would this slow me to use the inserts and also use effects in the mix down?
 
The solution to this problem is both very simple but in practice problematic!

The simple bit is an XLR in line attenuator for each monitor (if the monitors do not have XLR inputs they are ***t, get better ones) An attenuator of 10-15dB should serve. The PROBLEM is, where to get them? Googling throws up sheds of inline XLR pads but almost all are for 200 Ohm mic circuits and 200R will load the outputs of the mixer too much and lead to distortion. If you search hard enough you can find 600 Ohm pads (F knows why!) but even these are of lower resistance than I would like to use in a critical monitoring path. But! I shall keep looking and let everyone know if I find some.

But there is a deeper issue here IMHO. All well and good going down the archaic analogue route but there were good reasons why recording mostly left it behind and one of those was electrical knowledge.

To keep a tape machine in top order you have to know about and have the skills to clean it and optimize it for various tape types. Even if you stick to one brand there is no guarantee it will be available next year! Then you really should check line up for each new batch. Vital in fact if using Dolby NR.

I don't say analogue peeps should need in depth skills, component level circuit design say but they SHOULD IMHO be conversant with simple things like attenuators and be able to line up a tape machine. Soldering up some resistors and putting them in a tin with some XLRs is not STEAM science, leave alone rocketry !!

Ask, learn, practice, DO!

Dave.
 
SuperZebra said:
You can switch from the mains out to the headphones my problem was that my mains out signal was too hot for home use but I think a tc level pilot will sort that. I see what you mean regarding the insert channels, my recordings aren’t normally too complex so I normally just add effects during the recording stage ie compressing the bass as I’m recording. You mentioned using a patch bay? Would this slow me to use the inserts and also use effects in the mix down?
Click to expand...

I'm still not getting what the problem is.
1) you have a volume control on your outputs.
2) you can switch if the output is going to the mains or headphones.
3) your KRKs have volume controls as well. (may be called sensitivity control )
You can set the overall level of your speakers, then with the volume on the mixer go from zero to the max volume you set on your monitors.

As to the patch bay, theres all kind of stuff you can do with it depending on how it's configured.

Do you have the manual for the mixer? I'd advise studying it. If you don't have a hard copy, I'm sure you could download a pdf from the net.
 
"3) your KRKs have volume controls as well."

Yes RFR ^ but the volume pots will be post the balanced input amps and it would seem they are being overloaded. Poor design I grant you but a good many "projjy" monitors have too much gain and lead to high self noise. Not often there is a headroom problem but obviously can happen.

OP. FCS learn to solder then I can post you a very simple diagram of how to build a stereo attenuator!
You need to LEARN this stuff if you are going to eff about with analogue gear. The digital guys can buy almost anything they need off the shelf. Not so for miss Anny Loggy!

Dave.
 
ecc83 said:
"3) your KRKs have volume controls as well."

Yes RFR ^ but the volume pots will be post the balanced input amps and it would seem they are being overloaded. Poor design I grant you but a good many "projjy" monitors have too much gain and lead to high self noise. Not often there is a headroom problem but obviously can happen.

OP. FCS learn to solder then I can post you a very simple diagram of how to build a stereo attenuator!

Dave.
Click to expand...

Dave, that still makes no sense. The mixer feeding the monitors has level control.
Turn it to zero, the monitors get nothing. So how are they getting overloaded if you can control how much they get???
What am I missing?
 
RFR said:
Dave, that still makes no sense. The mixer feeding the monitors has level control.
Turn it to zero, the monitors get nothing. So how are they getting overloaded if you can control how much they get???
What am I missing?
Click to expand...

I shall be generous and assume you mean the OP's MO "makes no sense"? My reply was the very model of accuracy!
But yes, why can't the Main Outs be backed off to suit the wimpy monitors? It might be some weird topology in the monitoring circuits that buggers about with the headphone level? More likely OP does not know WTF they are doing.

But this is a constant and on-going problem. Level mismatches. Almost all mixer, even the very cheap Bellringers, deliver "pro" levels and the LED meters usually light "0VU" for +4dBu out (or quite often 0dBu) but in any case the max out is often at least +20dBu or 7.775V rms.

Audio interfaces on the other hand are rarely hotter than +16dBu at best and +10dBu max is far from uncommon. Active monitors at this end of the market seen to cater for AI levels not mixers. It is of course easily possibly to have a balanced input amplifier with a gain range of 0 to say 30dB but it cost a few pennies more!

Dave.
 
I think I owe the OP an apology!
See attached, the headphone feed shares control with the Control Room Mon outs and it is these that would logically feed the monitors.

This still does not explain the lack of control/headroom of the speakers but yes, there is no independent level control of cans and CR output. The easiest solution I can see is a "kill" switch in the monitor feeds, 4 pole flipper in a tin, bit more DIY! Simples!

Dave.
 

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As I said before iv not had to much practice with this mixer yet but I found that with the mains out I had very little room before dead silence and excecivly loud. When I did manage to get a somewhat practical level when I went to set my gain input on track one I noticed that my main mix out not being set to unity gave me a false reading on what my input gain was, perhaps there is a setting on the mixer that would prevent this but iv not had to much experience with it yet as I’m still setting up my studio.
 
SuperZebra said:
As I said before iv not had to much practice with this mixer yet but I found that with the mains out I had very little room before dead silence and excecivly loud. When I did manage to get a somewhat practical level when I went to set my gain input on track one I noticed that my main mix out not being set to unity gave me a false reading on what my input gain was, perhaps there is a setting on the mixer that would prevent this but iv not had to much experience with it yet as I’m still setting up my studio.
Click to expand...

Did I read that you are recording from the inserts? If so these are pre everything but mic pre and its gain pot. I suggest setting all the channel faders to 0dB and back the mic gains to minimum. Then get a decent level on the mixer's meters, say -10dB, peaks to 0dB and a good level in cans (forget monitors for now) . Then set the tape in pots for the level you think you need. This is a personal choice as some folks "go hard" for some tape "attitude". Whatever, once you have the desired level for recording do not touch the mic gain again.

That^ is just an idea to get a sensible gain structure. Main thing is that no controls should be at either extreme (unless trying to record a spinet with a 7b at 3 feet) .

Dave.
 
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