Looking for advice: Just Snagged a Tascam 58 + M50 mixer for... $100

T

tinymotel

New member
Hey gang!

Headline says it all. I just snagged a Tascam 58 + M50 which looks like it was well taken care of. Came with both original manuals + a few snakes which is awesome!

Curious if anyone else is using one of these out there, what tape do you like for it? I have a 388 and have been using LPR35 with good success so far. Was thinking 911 would probably be what to use, but interested to hear if anyone is using any of the other high bias tapes with this deck and what specs you calibrate it to.

I'm also looking for a calibration tape. Any good leads on where to pick one up these days?

Also, I'm assuming the answer to this question is don't do it, it's a nightmare... but is there a possibility to sync the 58 and my 388 together to get 16 tracks? Or maybe 14 or 15 with a channel dedicated to SMPTE or something? I've been using SMPTE with my MPC with success on the 388 with the 388 as master, but no idea how I'd go about adding another tape deck into the mix...

Thanks for any help!

Cheers
 
Pretty sure the 58 can slave to another deck, so it should be doable. I'm not sure what kind of synchronizer you'd need to make it go, though - possibly a Lynx 2 or Microlynx. Making the sync connector is the bit I'd be most worried about since that's a really, really weird accessory connector.

SM911 is probably your best bet for the 58, by the way.
 
Awesome thanks for the tip on sync boxes. Seems like there's a few options out there still... Probably getting ahead of my self there though. Gotta get it all up and running first.

SM911 seems like a safe bet. I have an old reel of 456 that came with it, but no idea how old it is... I'd be curious to hear anyone's firsthand experience with 911 VS 900 or the ATR tape. Seems like there's some options at least!

I'll try and get some images up once I get this thing running for real.
 
911 is compatible with 456, which the deck was almost certainly designed for. AFAIK 900 is expecting a higher bias, and I'm not sure how hot the deck can go or whether you'd need to modify the channel cards to get it to bias that high. I've heard that ATR works over a range of biases so you might get away with that.

I'll admit I've occasionally slapped SM900 on the TSR-8 without adjusting it, but I am using noise reduction so that probably helps.
 
Hi Tinymotel-- The Tascam 58 run's at 15 ips and I believe your 388 runs at 7 1/2 ips.
IMHO I would say no to syncing the two machines.

I use RMGI SM-911 Tape on my Tascam 48 and Tascam TSR-8. It's good tape.

Jack:)
 
halljack said:
Hi Tinymotel-- The Tascam 58 run's at 15 ips and I believe your 388 runs at 7 1/2 ips.
IMHO I would say no to syncing the two machines.
Click to expand...

There will be a difference in recording quality, yes, but I think you may be misunderstanding how tape synchronisation works. The fact that they're running at different tape speeds isn't going to be a problem.

The idea isn't to get both machines physically running at the same exact tape speed, it's to ensure that they're both playing back the timecode track at exactly the same bitrate, and keep things that way by monitoring and adjusting the speed of the slave deck to compensate if they drift out of line. You can actually start the machines at different points in the tape and the slave will fast-forward and/or rewind to find the proper position.
Heck, you can even have the master timecode coming from something that isn't a tape deck at all, e.g. a DAW.
 
Congrats!! Awesome find for that price.

Get the cal tape from MRL. You want the 15ips 250nwb/m tape with IEC eq curve. At minimum get the three tone tape. Better option is to get the multi-frequency tape.

456/SM911 is what the machine was designed for. Unless the amp cards have already been modified, it won’t properly bias higher output tapes like 499/GP9/SM900 or ATR tape. There is a cap value that has to be changed.

Yes you can sync the 58 and 388, both use the same sync protocol, either one can be master or slave, one track on each machine would be used for SMPTE tone so you’d end up with 14 audio tracks total (possibly 13 if you have to sacrifice another track on the 388 as a guard band track because of the narrow format), and as suggested a Timeline Micro Lynx is a really good option. A Tascam ES-50 will work also. There is a learning curve with either option, and the mountain-sized impediment with either one is coming up with the cables. It would be miracle if you found a synchronizer that already had the proper cables. Expect it won’t have them, and the parts will run a couple hundred dollars (if you can even find the Micro Lynx end parts if you go that option), and you have to be pretty good with a soldering iron to assemble them. There are very specific diagrams for how to put these cables together. If you happen to find these cables already made, don’t be surprised to pay $300-500 for the set, and possibly need to modify them for your specific setup.
 
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sweetbeats said:
Congrats!! Awesome find for that price.
Click to expand...

Hah, yes. I think my mind slipped a decade. The prices these things are going for on ebay now are astonishing so that is very much a bargain.


you’d end up with 24 audio tracks total (possibly 13 if you have to sacrifice another track on the 388 as a guard band track because of the narrow format),
Click to expand...

Assuming you meant 14. It looks like they are already using some kind of sync on the 388, so hopefully they're OK with that side of things.
 
I have had a M50 for a long time- probably the late 80's. I bought it from Teac when I worked there.
It is an outstanding mixer but the use of it for larger projects or two 8 tracks will require something with a larger capacity of channels.
The 388 is junk next to the 58. I would just make sure the 58 is working then dump the 388 which is hard to repair and works with proprietary heads that are long gone. I work on all kinds of Tascam Analog equipment but there is no room to work on the 388 nor would I want to.
The TSR8 is a bit better than the 388 but then still not the capability of the 38 and will cost more to calibrate due to the one head.

I have not come across any Tascam deck or tape that can not work with the other. People that can not bias ATR to a deck either are doing something wrong or are using that stupid over bias method that only approximates the correct setting. Teac Chicago Technicians abandoned that
method of adjustment back in 1982. We had a real recording Engineer working there from Streeterville Studios and he then became the manager and then owner of the facility when Teac sold it.

The SM911 tape is one that is a good tape but I have also gotten SM900 to go out to 50KHz on a Tascam 42 when using 15 IPS. That was at 0 Vu.
 
Awesome thanks for all the replies!

I've done a light run through of the deck and all seems to be working there. I need to do a through run down of the M50 mixer still, hopefully this weekend.

I'm super excited to hear what this thing can do, especially if it's that much better than the 388. I gotta say I love my 388, but I'm mainly doing sort of dirty rock kinda stuff with it which I think it lends it self to. I also have a decent stack of outboard gear which probably helps. Me and that 388 have been through some times in the last 6 years. I saved it from an electronics recycle plant in pretty good working order. A few years later, installed a new motor, new belts, replaced a reel table. Getting parts was a little tricky, but so far I've been keeping it alive! (She took a tumble down a staircase in a move once too...:eek:)

Does anyone have any good resources for calibration techniques? I have the manual which is honestly amazingly through. But maybe there's some tape expert youtube guy out there or something?

Still need to snag a MRL tape, but I've got a reel of SM911 coming so I can really dig in.

Thanks for all the help gang!
 
Finally got a test run going here. Seems like it's all working pretty well, though I haven't gotten into the ACCESS sends yet.

The tape deck seems to be in good shape. Did a quick test of a few channels sending some audio to record and works nice. Sounds fantastic!

The mixer on the other hand I think needs some work (or possibly user error on my part).

When I play back audio from the tape, I'm not able to hear anything back unless I engage the Solo button. Is that normal? Maybe I'm doing something wrong... but seems like all the buttons on this mixer are pretty rough. I can get them to engage if I fiddle with them a bit...

If I engage the Solo button (which is pretty crunchy / fiddly on most channels) Then I can hear my BUSS playback coming through my main speakers.

Here's a video of some quick 1 mic drums showing the Solo issue:
YouTube

Think a cleaning will help these crusty buttons? Or is this a bigger job than I think?
 
Well, how do you have the rest of the routing setup? I can't tell this from the video and you don't describe this. Do you have any of the PGM group assign switches latched? What happens if you latch the PGM 1 assign switch, switch the MONITOR mixer channel 1 source switch to BUSS, raise the PGM 1 fader to the shaded area, latch the MON switch in the monitor select switchrack, and then raise the STEREO A fader?
 
Thanks Sweetbeats! I really appreciate your help and knowledge here! Your Youtube channel is fantastic BTW. Not a ton of people out there still giving these old machines the love they need!

I just had a more in depth run with it this morning and here's what I'm finding. (Basically most of the channel strips are either really dirty or shot)

Setup was as follows:
D OUT on each channel 1-8 to the Tape Deck
Tape IN channels 1-8 are being fed by the Tape Deck
Stereo Master A OUTPUT to the Balance Amp Input
Balance Amp XLR Out to powered speakers for monitoring

I have some audio recorded on ch6 on the tape so, first I used that as a test for each channel on the mixer down the line to test playback.

When MON switch engaged + MONITOR mixer switch is set to Tape, I'm able to monitor all channels 1-8 and hear playback from the Tape. (Sounds fantastic). But none of the faders / EQ / buss master faders have any effect.

When MON switch engaged + MONITOR mixer switches set to BUSS... I'm getting intermittent playback / scratchy / dropouts / pops on most channels. CH 1, 7 & 8 I get nothing. Totally dead. BUT their respective LINE in's work (on some channels) if I move the RCA on the back from TAPE IN to LINE IN. Channels 4 & 6 work great, but the rest are kinda finicky.

Seems like either the INPUT select switches on each channel are going bad / have already gone bad on a few channels or the Trim pots or both. If I toggle them into a weird middle position between LINE IN / RMX I can kind of get playback on some of the dead channels. And sometimes giving a rigorous twist to the trim pot got a bit of audio to come in, but wasn't reliable.

SO,
1. I guess my big question at this point is should I get this thing cleaned up and see how it behaves after cleaning all the pots & switches?
2. Are these switches known for going bad? Are they a pain in the arse / worth it to clean? IE: Am I looking more at possibly replacing parts?
3. Should I maybe just look into getting a different mixer to accompany the 58? (Any recommendations?)

Looking at the exploded view in the manual, taking this thing apart to clean all switches / pots seems a bit daunting. I know this was stored uncovered in the garage when I got it for who knows how long... Considering how little I paid for the setup, I'm almost thinking just find a more reliable mixer with direct outs that can handle tape, but this Tascam is really a beauty and it sounded lovely on the little bits of audio I've gotten it to send to tape... The alternative is suck it up, and get this thing cleaned up (if that would even help) And use my 388 mixer as the console for the 38 in the meantime...

hmm
 
Its worth saving. :D Daunting as it may be. Whats the alternative, land fill? Junkyard?

I'd be willing to bet 90% of your issues can be remedied by cleaning.
 
Thanks for the encouragement. I'm gonna pull the first 4 channels here and see if I can get them cleaned up.

The alternative definitely wouldn't be the land fill. I'd obviously add 6 more studs in my wall and hang it! lol

I really love this old tascam stuff, so hopefully I can save it. My 388 and I have been through quite a bit together, so I'm hoping for the same for this rig. I've installed a new motor, belts, swapped a few capacitors that burnt out and swapped in a new reel table on the 388. Cleaning a few pots should be a piece of cake comparatively. (famous last words)

Anything I should be aware of as I'm pulling these channels? Any ribbon cables in there to be careful of etc?

Thanks!!
 
Sure thing.

What kind of climate is it where it was stored in the garage? Cold? Hot? Humid? Dry?

Forget getting replacement parts. I’ve generally found that by using DeoxIT D5 or could even use the Gold or D100 DeoxIT products, on the source select toggle switches you can hit those from the top of the control surface...a good jet, a lot of exercising the switch, then a flush spray. It helps. Generally.

The push-button assign switches are a different story...you have to be able to get to the component side of each card to try and leech cleaner into the body of those switches, and they are a smaller assembly on the M-50/M-500 series consoles than other lines so that doesn’t help. But getting some cleaner in the body of the switch and exercising it a bunch (I used a piece of wood so I could exercise a block of switches simultaneously, like a 100 pushes after getting some cleaner inside the body of them)

Your issues do sound like dirty switches but maybe also bad connections between the wire harnessing and the connector pins on the cards. Don’t rule out exercising the ACCESS SEND/RCV jumpers. And if none of this seems to improve things, this might be a case where the console is in dire need of a recap especially if it was stored unused in a hot environment for years.

Keep us posted.
 
Thanks Sweetbeats!

I'm in the Detroit area. So probably the worst of all climates is what it's been sitting in... hah. Hot, humid, cold - we got it all here.

I've got a fresh can of Deoxit D5 sitting on my desk here ready to go. Hopefully get a chance this weekend to do a few channels and see how it works out.

Thanks for all the info guys! Really appreciate it.
 
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